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Quote:

Originally Posted by bedrock (Post 1657420)

FA's, ground workers, etc. have not spent 100K on their education, do not risk their livelihoods daily and have more lateral mobility than pilots. FA's and mechanics have their own unions to negotiate for them as well.

If pilots cave, the FA's and mechanics will the next targets.

I've never said there was a work group that had more invested in the success of the company than the pilots. Management included. This is different than saying the pilots are the ONLY ones with something to loose.

Admittedly I don't know if the other work groups are in it for long term success or just long enough for the next opportunity to present itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawk87 (Post 1657426)

I don't think he is calling a bluff, the rapid shrink of XJT is real! And yet we are not going to fly for less than what we make now. You can't pay us "fair" wages? Park the planes (or renegotiate your contracts with UA/DL/AMR).

Okay. Fair enough.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. In all sincerity I wish ASA and XJT pay raises and growth. Good luck.

Everyone keeps talking about "fair" wages but can someone post in monetary terms what that is? In other words, what should be the baseline for year 1 to x for FO and Capt on the 145, 200, 700 &900?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAMushroom (Post 1657361)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevets

Captain Tony, we already put our mouth where our money is! What did you think the 83% NO vote meant? Hello? You negotiating guys still don't get it! We don't want to work for ANYTHING less than what we make. They are already parking aircraft like they said they would before the vote...yawn.

This is all fine and good. No one wants you to take a pay cut or concession. For the love of all that is holy you gotta stop saying otherwise.

It is in all our interest to pattern bargain up the pay scale. But it is just amazing that the livelihoods of the thousands of ground workers, Fa, etc are not even on your radar. The success of your company is more than all about you.

You're calling a bluff and the axe man is in your living room. For my personal benefit don't take a pay cut. For the benefit of your coworkers you should negotiate in good faith. There is more to profitability than pay scales.

Well, I'll gladly vote to just keep the contract I have in order for the rest of us to keep our jobs. But I won't vote for a pay cut just so that the ramp guy can keep his job. I'm very sorry about that. Is that holy enough for you?

By the way, what I am trying to say is that we already called the company's bluff when we voted NO to concessions. And the company is making good on their threat. Maybe management has already made the calculation that this is not a viable company. I'm ok with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross9238 (Post 1657461)

Everyone keeps talking about "fair" wages but can someone post in monetary terms what that is? In other words, what should be the baseline for year 1 to x for FO and Capt on the 145, 200, 700 &900?

In truth, it should be equal work equal pay like the trades. A 1 year captain produces the same amount of work per flight hour as 18 year captain same for FO’s. It would also make switching hats easier and drive the industry up. 65k & 95K are my numbers

Well.. if this is true.. back to reserve for the 3rd time!! The 7 year reserve captains have me beat by a long shot. However, I have my doubts about the truth to this. Probably FozJared posting this in his mom's basement slurping creatine. Making up rumors because Mesa isnt meeting their quota.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waitingformins (Post 1657482)

This is way off base. An 18 year pilot has acquired much more experience, knowledge and skill than a new hire. This is the basis for continuing pay raises. I learn more each year that adds value to my skill set. You pay me more for my new knowledge.

Quote:

Everyone keeps talking about "fair" wages but can someone post in monetary terms what that is? In other words, what should be the baseline for year 1 to x for FO and Capt on the 145, 200, 700 &900?

I'd be interested in hearing what people say about this.

50-60/hr for FOs and 90-100 for Capra with an over ride for the larger acft

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross9238 (Post 1657461)

Everyone keeps talking about "fair" wages but can someone post in monetary terms what that is? In other words, what should be the baseline for year 1 to x for FO and Capt on the 145, 200, 700 &900?

Fair has nothing to do with it. We provide a known percentage of profit and should be paid an equal percent of income to our peers in 737's etc. Our CEO makes equal (or more)!than UA's yet the pilots don't.

If our management makes $600k ++ (keeping this same ratio) I ballpark guess a 10 yr capt on a 70 seat plane would pay about $100-120 and FO's would earn about $80-90K per year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAMushroom (Post 1657485)

I get your point, but why is it then that an 18 year Captain transitioning from a regional airline to a major airline is paid at the lowest pay scale? ( I would submit the experience level of an 18 year RJ Captain and a 737 Captain are pretty similar ). I know the answer: seniority. Perhaps pay is not based on the merits of skill and expertise after all, but longevity. I've only been at this for a couple of years, but it seems to me that the seniority system shackles pilots to a carrier they might otherwise be apt to leave. I think you are correct, pay should be based on experience. However, it would seem to me pay is based on company loyalty because experience does not matter (for pay).