6th anniversary of Colgan 3407
02-18-2015 | 10:00 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: B737 CA
So, as a Professional Aviator, you can say with absolute conviction that a guy who held a commercial pilot license since 1999 and had jet sim training in 2001 can jump into a transport category airplane, execute a descending spiral from 35,000 feet followed by a 5-mile straight-in approach and put it perfectly into the side of one of the world's most recognizable 80' tall buildings on his first try, leaving recognizable 757 parts like engine cores and wheel assemblies in the wreckage?
02-19-2015 | 06:01 AM
#23
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Think about this..... Had PIC respected the stick shaker and the stick pusher, and the SIC had knowledge of cold weather operations as well as stalls, and fundamental flying skills and had she not raised the gear and flaps during the stall, would there be a memorial for the passengers and FAs, assuming that is the purpose of the memorial.
Cruel? Possibly.... but look at the root causes.... not the lack of sleep, but training/checking and inexperience issues and process at the carrier.
Cruel? Possibly.... but look at the root causes.... not the lack of sleep, but training/checking and inexperience issues and process at the carrier.
02-19-2015 | 07:05 AM
#24
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Joined: Jul 2012
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How can there still be any debate about this??
They had a good bit of altitude, if he had just let go of the yoke completely (done absolutely nothing, like he wasnt even there) and let the Bombardier engineer's design and basic physics work, there is a pretty good chance we would not be discussing this.
They had a good bit of altitude, if he had just let go of the yoke completely (done absolutely nothing, like he wasnt even there) and let the Bombardier engineer's design and basic physics work, there is a pretty good chance we would not be discussing this.
02-19-2015 | 06:28 PM
#27
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 880
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From: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Release ALL the video(s) and you will convince me, until then, I don't believe it. You're willing to make this guy a ThunderBird Pilot, I'm not. BTW big shot, try not to cover every question that you don't agree with as flame bait no matter how uncomfortable it might make you.
02-19-2015 | 08:44 PM
#29
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Release ALL the video(s) and you will convince me, until then, I don't believe it. You're willing to make this guy a ThunderBird Pilot, I'm not. BTW big shot, try not to cover every question that you don't agree with as flame bait no matter how uncomfortable it might make you.
You sure you're ok being up in the flight levels with all of us working for the NWO spraying chemtrails?
02-20-2015 | 04:17 AM
#30
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,225
Likes: 61
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
You just mentioned two misconceptions common with 3407. Icing had nothing to do with it. That was just the initial thought of the NTSB, and everyone just remembers that. The Q-400 can handle a lot of ice and the tail was specifically designed to prevent tail icing. According to Bombardier, tail icing is impossible (not a very smart thing to say in aviation). Also, the FO raising the flaps was not a major factor. When she say the nose pitch up, I believe she thought the other pilot was executing a go around and sim training took over causing her to raise the flaps. And not recognizing a stall with a shaker going off is probably a sign of fatigue. Also, the point where the flaps are raise, the aircraft is 40 knots below the stall speed, pitching up 15*, and banking 70* as a wing drops. With the other pilot fighting the stick pusher, it did not matter where the flaps were at that point.
The crew needed to be in a different profession that did not involve the use of complicated equipment.
NTSB Chairwoman Deborah Hersman said it was the pilots' "complacency and confusion that resulted in catastrophe," and more importantly, the safety issues involved in the crash still have not been fixed.
"These are issues that we have seen time and time again, and unfortunately it has taken 50 lives for us to focus additional attention on these issues that have not been addressed," Hersman said.
In the cockpit that night, Capt. Marvin Renslow did not notice that the plane's speed was dropping dangerously low. When cockpit warnings indicated the plane was about to stall, instead of pushing what is called the stick shaker forward to increase speed, Renslow pulled it backwards multiple times. The second in command, First Officer Rebecca Shaw, may not have been experienced enough to respond right away, investigators said.
"These are issues that we have seen time and time again, and unfortunately it has taken 50 lives for us to focus additional attention on these issues that have not been addressed," Hersman said.
In the cockpit that night, Capt. Marvin Renslow did not notice that the plane's speed was dropping dangerously low. When cockpit warnings indicated the plane was about to stall, instead of pushing what is called the stick shaker forward to increase speed, Renslow pulled it backwards multiple times. The second in command, First Officer Rebecca Shaw, may not have been experienced enough to respond right away, investigators said.
It all boils down to the training and checking process, or lack thereof.
Last edited by captjns; 02-20-2015 at 04:27 AM.
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