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Old 01-22-2007 | 02:00 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot
This has nothing to do with "being perfect". A $hitload of people died! Someone must be accountable. Two peops were at the controls; only one made it. He is responsible...period.
Obviously you havent read this months alpa magazine. Lets see how quick you are to be responsible when you have a mistake and have to do hard time in jail. A lot of the accidents in the article didn't even include fatalities. Pilots were being put in jail for minor incidents. So before you show to much ignorance, you better watch out what you say. You never know when you will be the one standing before the judge.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by reelbigchair
Yes the pilots are responsible for the safety of the aircraft, nobody here is saying otherwise. I'm saying, it could've been any one of us. This is a mistake, plain and simple. I believe that you have to go a lot farther to find negligence in this particular accident. These pilots were not "cowboys" living by their own rules. They were operating their aircraft in a safe and responsible manner. They made no choices that significantly increased the likelihood of a crash. They didn't ignore checklists, they didn't fly into terrible weather, they didn't show up drunk. If they had done any of those things, or similar things, then I would buy into the negligence. They made a tragic mistake of turning onto the wrong runway. Nobody in the flight deck (I believe there were 3 of them) noticed. So three fully trained airline pilots, all with significant experience, made a terrible mistake. They, however, were not negligent, which is something I believe SHOULD be necessary for a successful lawsuit against the pilots. Unfortunately in our country, I'm afraid that won't be necessary.
I do not agree, they were negligent. Any time there are accidents involving human frailties there is negligence. By definition when the pilots lined up on the wrong runway they were negligent, to what degree will be determined by the courts. If human beings could be perfectly vigilant we could eliminate the human factor from accidents. These pilots made a choice to disregard a couple of procedures or checks which delivered them to the seen of the accident. If they were being adequately vigilant the result of their flight would have been the same outcome as the rest of the flights that operated in LEX that day before them. If we want to in some way suggest this crew was operating responsibly the best I can offer is to say they were not being reckless.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 02:50 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by YAKflyer
I do not agree, they were negligent. Any time there are accidents involving human frailties there is negligence. By definition when the pilots lined up on the wrong runway they were negligent, to what degree will be determined by the courts. If human beings could be perfectly vigilant we could eliminate the human factor from accidents. These pilots made a choice to disregard a couple of procedures or checks which delivered them to the seen of the accident. If they were being adequately vigilant the result of their flight would have been the same outcome as the rest of the flights that operated in LEX that day before them. If we want to in some way suggest this crew was operating responsibly the best I can offer is to say they were not being reckless.

There was no recklessness apparent, but the only they could be exonerated from negligence is if all these problems occurred:

1) The taxiway markings were missing or incorrect (this may have been the case).

2) The runway marking was missing or incorrect.

3) Both AHRS malfunctioned, giving them an erroneous heading indication that would lead them to believe they were lined up where they should have been.


Personally I would not hold them accountable for failing to check the standby compass under these circumstances, but I'm sure a jury of 12 aviation-ignoramouses would.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 04:31 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
There was no recklessness apparent, but the only they could be exonerated from negligence is if all these problems occurred:

1) The taxiway markings were missing or incorrect (this may have been the case).

2) The runway marking was missing or incorrect.

3) Both AHRS malfunctioned, giving them an erroneous heading indication that would lead them to believe they were lined up where they should have been.


Personally I would not hold them accountable for failing to check the standby compass under these circumstances, but I'm sure a jury of 12 aviation-ignoramouses would.

A jury will ask the obvious based on their kowledge of the world. Why didn't they just check the compass? Once they have that answer - they will assign responsibility. We all know this.

-LAFF
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Old 01-22-2007 | 04:48 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by reelbigchair
Yes the pilots are responsible for the safety of the aircraft, nobody here is saying otherwise. I'm saying, it could've been any one of us. This is a mistake, plain and simple. I believe that you have to go a lot farther to find negligence in this particular accident. These pilots were not "cowboys" living by their own rules. They were operating their aircraft in a safe and responsible manner. They made no choices that significantly increased the likelihood of a crash. They didn't ignore checklists, they didn't fly into terrible weather, they didn't show up drunk. If they had done any of those things, or similar things, then I would buy into the negligence. They made a tragic mistake of turning onto the wrong runway. Nobody in the flight deck (I believe there were 3 of them) noticed. So three fully trained airline pilots, all with significant experience, made a terrible mistake. They, however, were not negligent, which is something I believe SHOULD be necessary for a successful lawsuit against the pilots. Unfortunately in our country, I'm afraid that won't be necessary.
You appear to be contradicting yourself here. Taking off from the wrong runway doesn't seem to be 'safe and responsible' piloting to me.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot
This has nothing to do with "being perfect". A $hitload of people died! Someone must be accountable. Two peops were at the controls; only one made it. He is responsible...period.
Glad to see you're a shill for all the personal injury lawyers of the world - you must be a liberal democrat. Just because mistakes are made doesn't mean someone has to pay - the people "Responsible" have already paid - the Captain is dead and F/O is going to live with this the rest of his life - more than enough payback for their mistakes.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ExDeltaPilot
Glad to see you're a shill for all the personal injury lawyers of the world - you must be a liberal democrat. Just because mistakes are made doesn't mean someone has to pay - the people "Responsible" have already paid - the Captain is dead and F/O is going to live with this the rest of his life - more than enough payback for their mistakes.
Could'nt have been better said, I agree 100%
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Old 01-22-2007 | 05:54 PM
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I do not think that the FO should face any legal issues. I personally can not stand people who are " Sue Happy". Obviously, this was a tragic acciedent; however, sueing the FO in a civil suit will not bring the dead back to life. Our society now days is really screwed up. In many cases people mourn the loss of loved ones for a short period of time, and then all they see is dollar signs. Our current society is nothing but pure greed and it is sad.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CO777Driver
I do not think that the FO should face any legal issues. I personally can not stand people who are " Sue Happy". Obviously, this was a tragic acciedent; however, sueing the FO in a civil suit will not bring the dead back to life. Our society now days is really screwed up. In many cases people mourn the loss of loved ones for a short period of time, and then all they see is dollar signs. Our current society is nothing but pure greed and it is sad.
Hence why things seem to be going down hill so quickly.
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Old 01-22-2007 | 06:29 PM
  #40  
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I completely agree that the FO and obviously the captain have more than paid for their mistake, and I would hate to see the FO in legal trouble.

But, this is the point that I made earlier... THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE PILOTS WERE NEGLIGENT.

Yes it was a mistake, but in the act of lining up with the wrong runway and ignoring the incorrect runway numbers, failing to notice their errant heading, failing to notice the absense of runway lighting among other things they were in fact negligent.
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