The real problem is leverage, despite all this talk and rhetoric. The leverage we do not hold at the regional level. You can hold the line and demand more, etc, etc all day long. The problem lies in the fact that there is no leverage on our side at the Regionals against he mainline partners.

Here is how this goes. This is an actual story of a discussion between a large regional and it's mainline partner.

Regional: We would like to extend these leases with you on many of these RJ's that have been flown for years safely for you.

Mainline Management: Sounds great, we'd love to discuss it.

Regional: Great. Well, here is the thing. The rate you are paying us to fly these is totally unprofitable. We would love to continue to fly these jets, but we need to renegotiate new terms that are better for us, and allow our company to be profitable and can afford us to invest in our company and people.

Mainline: Nah, we are only comfortable with what the current terms are. Besides, we can just move these leases to another cheaper company. That continues to help our profits, and the planes will still be flown. After all, it really doesn't matter to us who flies these planes.

Regional: Oh yea, well......who will fly those planes for this other company. There is a shortage of candidates wanting to fly for these airlines now?

Mainline: Oh, that's an easy one. Many of your junior pilots will take a job there hoping for a quicker upgrade.

Checkmate.

See, this is why we don't have all this power so many think there is at the regional level. Yes, we do the same job, are skilled and trained and have a lot of responsibility. However, we can't force our companies to pay us more, because they can't increase their revenue to cover the higher expenses. To correctly show the profits the partners are making is fine, but unless you can force them to spend it at the regional level it is moot! When someone shows how that can be done I'd love to know. They just - as they ALWAYS HAVE - move the flying to a cheaper company. Unless there is a collusion at the regionals to all charge the same rates, and for all the regionals to have one payscale for the same aircraft. Even that won't help much, because companies with less longevity will always be cheaper, and mainlines can (and have in the past) start up a new regional to usurp higher costs at others. Usairways started Potomac Airlines years ago to fly Dash-8's and undercut Piedmont and Allegheny. United is shifting flying from XJT to Trans States. Mesa has done this for years. This is why you can't just demand they pay you more because you are worth it.

An interview is a negotiation, you aren't earning anything. Only people who own their own business actually earn something. The very definition of a union is entitlement through collective negotiation.

*cough* PSA *cough*

Seriously, PSA pilots, are you listening? We had 3, THREE employee groups say no to corporate greed, and then you guys came along.

Quit blaming PSA for your own pilot group's problems. Plenty of airlines are still getting non-concessionary contracts despite PSA. And it could be argued that our new contract that was voted in is hardly concessionary. Our new 12 year cap for CAs is only a couple dollars less than the 18 year captain pay under the old contract. All that in exchange for keeping jobs and massive growth. Hardly a bad deal. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at AAG and ALPA. Not PSA. The pilot group at the time voted to save their jobs. And after seeing what happened to Envoy, can anyone doubt that Doug could have easily shut PSA down quickly without even batting an eye? Twice the pilot group voted down contracts, and twice Doug placed aircraft at Mesa. What we have now is growth and movement which in itself is intrinsically valuable. No one is forcing you to stay wherever you are that has lead you to believe that PSA is the cause of your woes.

And 1st year regional FO pay will never be the same as current 1st year regional CA pay. The legacy partners would simply find a way to weasel out of the flying contracts and either start a new regional airline or give the flying to someone else. You people are completely delusional. Should first year pay be higher? Absolutely. No regional FO should have to live on food stamps and struggle to pay bills. But to say that we should start out making CA pay is also completely delusional. If you want to make changes, you have to be reasonable and realistic. And it's not all about the hourly wages. Soft pay makes a huge impact on your bottom line. Fight for trip and duty rigs. Fight to increase first year pay to $35 / hour with 75 to 80 hour minimum guarantee. That would be reasonable.

Not 1 person that negotiated PSA's 2013 contract and the LOA's that followed still work at PSA. Did they do what they had to do to secure their job at mainline? I dunno. Kinda curious that everyone from PSA gets the 190 out of PHL. But the previous MEC got the 757.

Yes, there is a class of pilots who are both at mainline, and the regionals, who are negotiating to the detriment of pilots for their own personal gain. We call this group an MEC.

PSA screwed everybody's chance at a better contract. Brainless group that voted yes. Absolutely brainless. Don't even try to justify anything. PSA is a complete joke in my book. Talk about not having a grasp on anything that is going on in the world. Even if they voted in something gives AAG a single penny in savings, it's still a braindead move. Live with it now.

How are those 9 month upgrades going? LOL. Hope Envoy winds up keeping those 700's. Even if they did vote yes as well, it would still be funny.

I just find coincidences interesting.
And I'd like to stop saying that our Alpa leaders volunteer their time. They are reimbursed. Ok maybe not for their whole time. But when was the last time a pilot got paid from the time they show at the airport? What's good for the goose...

They haven't screwed anyone? As I stated, pilots are getting non-concessionary contracts at several companies. Envoy screwed themselves and ended up with a worse deal than if they had taken the original deal. People are upgrading in less than 9 months and we are hiring DECs, so I'm not sure what your point in jest was about exactly. Where do you work? Or are you one of the army of trolls that lurks this board while sitting in their underwear in mom's basement and plays Microsoft flight sim.