Most have a really hard time being second-in-command to 24 year olds (or anyone younger than them or deemed as someone they should outrank). Many of the ones I've flown with that ended their career flying a desk also have very rusty stick skills and don't seem too concerned about hearing feedback from someone that didn't spend 20 years flying a Viper or a Buff. If they were in charge of a unit before they left, they really don't like me telling them what to do and how to do it.

Even though many of these Captains may be young, they could have several thousand hours flying commercial jet aircraft as both an FO and a Captain. You may be a Major or Commander, but that doesn't mean you can't learn from the "lesser" side of aviation.

These are mostly just the negative things I've found. Most military pilots are consummate professionals, quick learners, and skilled aviators. Unfortunately, it's the ones who can't seem to check their egos at the door that stand out the most and give all military pilots a bad name.

It's regrettable to hear the negative points you are talking about but I have seen the same and understand your comments. I appreciate it's just a 'different' type of flying. I'm starting up as an ATP/MEI instructor next month for when I'm not flying in the reserves to keep my stick skills and currency. I don't have a problem with learning from anyone younger. So of course besides the negative personality traits and rusty stick skills what are key areas of focus that are deficient?

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Originally Posted by Twisted mind (Post 2029977)

Most former military make poor FO's for the first year or two. It is a steep learning curve.

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A year or two to figure out this gig? :rolleyes: You must have been dealing with some of the 10% idiots in every facet of society.

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Originally Posted by prior121 (Post 2029999)

This ^^

Reminds me of the mil bug eyed newhire UAL jumpseater I had a few weeks ago....

Such questions as "What is ramp control?"
"I don't understand how you fly this (RNAV) arrival."

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A new hire on the jumpseat asking questions. Isn’t that usually a good way to get information? Since they don’t do either ramp control or RNAV arrivals in many of the aircraft operated by the military, did you really expect a new hire out of the military to know about such things?

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Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2030014)

Most military pilots are consummate professionals, quick learners, and skilled aviators. Unfortunately, it's the ones who can't seem to check their egos at the door that stand out the most and give all military pilots a bad name.

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You make negative blanket statements about mil pilots using “most” and “many” and then you end up saying most are just fine. Which is it? If most prior mil pilots are “consummate professionals”, etc. then why would you let the few bad apples with ego issues sway your opinion to “give all military pilots a bad name”? If you’re able to recognize that most aren’t part of the problem, why do you feel it’s necessary to malign them all because of a few?

Actually, that isn't 100% true. There are types of both 91(k) and 135 PIC time that count towards 121 upgrade as well.

Well I'll say the former military guys doing IOE have been both some of the most professional guys I've flown with. All have been respectful and asked questions when it wasn't clear what was going. Age has never been an issue and I'm significantly younger than a number of the people I fly with.

I don't know about upgrade times but Im not sure why people have been talking about attitude problems. The worst I've seen is guys being unfimilar with the environment they are working in. All ex military have quickly adapted. Often times faster than there counterparts from other backgrounds.

Hey big daddy,

It is unlikely you will be in a position to upgrade within 2 years, even with your military experience. Although that is entirely dependent on the person-many are better than others and I won't assume you aren't....

The biggest struggle for military pilots is usually a combination of two crew and automation. Depending on what you were doing, a lot of mil guys are very used to grabbing the stick with one hand, the throttle with the other and giving her full juice from start to finish. That's just not the way it works in the airline world and there are some very different factors to consider (FAs, pax, etc).

I caution you about chasing an upgrade but of course that is your goal. I would recommend you get hired with someone with an east coast base (PSA maybe? does Mesa have an IAD base still?) and work your butt off. Study everything you can and learn from every captain you can so that when that upgrade time DOES come, which may be faster than everyone else says, you'll be ready.

Also, ignore all the people telling you to use the search function. You could be the first poster here in the history of this web site and you'd still have a bunch of people going "use the search!!!" No one has 4 days to filter through all the whiny garbage and useless crap anyway...

Good luck

Yet they are first choice for the majors.

Exactly. I've flown with military guys and they literally fly that right seat single pilot. You can tell a thousand things are going on in their brain they just can't do them because it's not single pilot anymore, it's a crew environment. Just take a deep breath and let the airline operation happen instead of you trying to make it happen. If that makes any sense.

I'm going to go ahead and make the bold statement that legacy airlines are probably smarter than your average collection of internet forum posters.

Of the ones that struggle, those are usually what the problems are. They don't sway my opinion but because they are so easily identifiable, it's easy to attach a stigma the same way you would to a Purdue or Riddle grad. I don't judge them but many are quick to and I'm just relaying some of the major areas that cause them problems.