Sim Time for R-ATP. How to log it?
07-23-2016, 08:38 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Lift
Hey all,
I'm using 141 Sim time to meet R-ATP mins. How do I log it in my logbook though? Do they want to see the 141 sim time under "total time"?
The 8710 time table does ask for Total Airplane and Total Sim. Does the APD want to see the addition of both under "Total Airplane"?
Thanks!
I'm using 141 Sim time to meet R-ATP mins. How do I log it in my logbook though? Do they want to see the 141 sim time under "total time"?
The 8710 time table does ask for Total Airplane and Total Sim. Does the APD want to see the addition of both under "Total Airplane"?
Thanks!
Total airplane is just that - sim/FTD goes separate. I can't recall the columns exactly, but it should add them for you. I do remember a tech glitch for some folks a while back where IACRA wouldn't accept because it wasn't adding the sim/FTD time in and thus was rejecting as insufficient time; I believe that was fixed so that now they're adding up automatically to meet the total pilot time or multi time or whatever category you need the sim/FTD to meet per the reg.
Just be sure you aren't using BATD/AATD time; the ATP requires FTD/simulator (the fancy stuff); this is a big difference from the instrument rating.
Congrats and good luck!!
Last edited by 271c; 07-23-2016 at 09:09 PM.
07-24-2016, 05:26 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 132
This topic couldn't have popped up at a more perfect time. I have questions regarding this as well. Currently I have more than enough XC and total time (actual "flight" time in an airplane) for an R-ATP. The only two categories I'm short on are multi-engine and instrument time. Does anyone know if the time spent in the sims during CTP count towards those two marks, instrument and multi? After reading the above comments, it's wise to keep sim time separate from "flight time", so if CTP sim DOES count, I probably won't log it as total time, (no need to since I'm set on total time). These are the full motion sims at CTP by the way.
Last edited by Dorp; 07-24-2016 at 05:27 AM. Reason: Grammar
07-24-2016, 05:39 AM
#13
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 21
There may be nuances to what airline applications want, but sim time is never counted as flight time, nor total flight time. Sim time is only good for training towards a rating, currency, or landings (e.g., level D sim).
So again, it may be ok for job applications to utilize sim time, but never for total time as a pilot, or flight time,, or PIC time. A sim is on the ground.
Instrument time is time manipulating controls in instrument conditions or while training in the air for currency with a view limiting device. Again, airline applications may want different numbers, but the FAA says instrument time is while personally manipulating the controls in less than VMC.
So again, it may be ok for job applications to utilize sim time, but never for total time as a pilot, or flight time,, or PIC time. A sim is on the ground.
Instrument time is time manipulating controls in instrument conditions or while training in the air for currency with a view limiting device. Again, airline applications may want different numbers, but the FAA says instrument time is while personally manipulating the controls in less than VMC.
07-24-2016, 06:39 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Log the simulator time as simulator time and nothing else.
When you need to meet a requirement that allows the inclusion of simulator time, add the applicable simulator time to the applicable flight time to get a total for that specific purpose.
When you need to meet a requirement that allows the inclusion of simulator time, add the applicable simulator time to the applicable flight time to get a total for that specific purpose.
07-24-2016, 07:24 AM
#16
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Originally Posted by 271c
I agree; but to be clear for others on the board, "total time" for the ATP is "total time as a pilot," so in that ONE circumstance the certificate applicant would need to combine total flight time and the appropriate FTD/sim time to reach that total (and would also break them out elsewhere on the form, as directed by IACRA). Agreed that logging total time is almost always "flight" time, especially for job apps and such.
For the FAA, fill out their form however they want it. Much easier to explain to the FAA why your logbook total time does not include sim, than to explain to a major airline why it does.
07-24-2016, 07:30 AM
#17
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Originally Posted by CTOGUY
Instrument time is time manipulating controls in instrument conditions or while training in the air for currency with a view limiting device. Again, airline applications may want different numbers, but the FAA says instrument time is while personally manipulating the controls in less than VMC.
You need to be the PF to log holds and approaches for currency, but again you can use the auto-pilot.
I log my GA currency in an airliner, just to check the box. But before I fly GA I get a CFII and practice to proficiency in a piston ASEL or FTD before I do it for real. Currency =/= Proficiency.
Last edited by rickair7777; 07-24-2016 at 07:41 AM.
07-24-2016, 11:36 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by PilotGuy77
When I commute to work I log that time too. Kidding.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07-24-2016, 03:47 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, FAA is different that way. I was talking about logbooks and airline employers...keep the sim time separate so as not to confuse potential employers (the point of confusion being whether or not you're honest...).
For the FAA, fill out their form however they want it. Much easier to explain to the FAA why your logbook total time does not include sim, than to explain to a major airline why it does.
For the FAA, fill out their form however they want it. Much easier to explain to the FAA why your logbook total time does not include sim, than to explain to a major airline why it does.
07-24-2016, 03:50 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by CTOGUY
There may be nuances to what airline applications want, but sim time is never counted as flight time, nor total flight time. Sim time is only good for training towards a rating, currency, or landings (e.g., level D sim).
So again, it may be ok for job applications to utilize sim time, but never for total time as a pilot, or flight time,, or PIC time. A sim is on the ground.
So again, it may be ok for job applications to utilize sim time, but never for total time as a pilot, or flight time,, or PIC time. A sim is on the ground.
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