Regional Hiring Already Slowing?
10-04-2016, 12:31 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by Duesenflieger
Nine months being at a 121 regional and only one captain was about to go to a legacy. Most of them are lifers, don't care enough to have apps in or simply are not motivated enough to make the jump.
10-04-2016, 05:27 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: Professional Eugoogoolizer at the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can’t Read Good
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by Duesenflieger
Yes, sir. I am not sure why.
10-04-2016, 05:30 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: CL65
Posts: 955
Originally Posted by MKUltra
People get comfortable and lazy. I'm usually hearing the guy next to me say.. Hmmm. You got your apps out there.. I say yes.. They say.. Yeah, I got to get around to it. Now that my company has a flow, most of the guys are sitting around waiting..
The funny thing is that the pilots that are 3+ years away from the flow are moving on to other legacies and the pilots that are 3 years or less away are waiting for the flow.
At my shop, we are sending more pilots to other career carriers than we are sending to the flow. The people that are missing out are the ones that are flowing.
10-04-2016, 06:15 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Q400, B-737
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by Duesenflieger
Yes, sir. I am not sure why.
A lot of us got hired before 9/11, and a few after. When that happened, life stopped. A lot got furloughed, some downgraded etc. Then we had the 65 rule. Then we had the 2008 housing/economic meltdown. We've finally gotten to a place where there's a lot of movement to the majors and the regionals are hurting. Thank god!
During that 15-ish year stalemate, what happened? We got older and greyer, and went from twenty-somethings to forty-somethings.
You get a lot more settled as you age. People found girlfriends, got married, bought homes, had kids, put them in school, (college is coming), got much higher fixed costs...
Yeah, they could dive back into that rat race for the majors if they wanted, but you look in the mirror in the morning, as you get ready to commute again, and ask yourself, "Do I want to start all over again?"
To be on the bottom, at some base far from home; how many years to upgrade vs. how many years left until 65. Where would you be bidding then, at what base? What would your QOL be? How many years until your pay matches what you make now? (+4 for me), and when would you break even?
Eventually, you reach a point where your family is more important than getting to a major. I understand why a lot of senior guys stay put, the marginal benefits don't outweigh the upheaval the move would cause.
My last 2-year FO is off to Atlas... Good for him! I'm really glad things have turned around for you younger guys, but don't ***** at the aged critters taking up space in the left seat, they have good reasons. They're not taking your slots at the majors.
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
10-04-2016, 06:23 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: Professional Eugoogoolizer at the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can’t Read Good
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by N19906
Well, I'll give you a little insight as to "Why". (Before we get started, yes, I'm a "poolie" for someone.)
A lot of us got hired before 9/11, and a few after. When that happened, life stopped. A lot got furloughed, some downgraded etc. Then we had the 65 rule. Then we had the 2008 housing/economic meltdown. We've finally gotten to a place where there's a lot of movement to the majors and the regionals are hurting. Thank god!
During that 15-ish year stalemate, what happened? We got older and greyer, and went from twenty-somethings to forty-somethings.
You get a lot more settled as you age. People found girlfriends, got married, bought homes, had kids, put them in school, (college is coming), got much higher fixed costs...
Yeah, they could dive back into that rat race for the majors if they wanted, but you look in the mirror in the morning, as you get ready to commute again, and ask yourself, "Do I want to start all over again?"
To be on the bottom, at some base far from home; how many years to upgrade vs. how many years left until 65. Where would you be bidding then, at what base? What would your QOL be? How many years until your pay matches what you make now? (+4 for me), and when would you break even?
Eventually, you reach a point where your family is more important than getting to a major. I understand why a lot of senior guys stay put, the marginal benefits don't outweigh the upheaval the move would cause.
My last 2-year FO is off to Atlas... Good for him! I'm really glad things have turned around for you younger guys, but don't ***** at the aged critters taking up space in the left seat, they have good reasons. They're not taking your slots at the majors.
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
A lot of us got hired before 9/11, and a few after. When that happened, life stopped. A lot got furloughed, some downgraded etc. Then we had the 65 rule. Then we had the 2008 housing/economic meltdown. We've finally gotten to a place where there's a lot of movement to the majors and the regionals are hurting. Thank god!
During that 15-ish year stalemate, what happened? We got older and greyer, and went from twenty-somethings to forty-somethings.
You get a lot more settled as you age. People found girlfriends, got married, bought homes, had kids, put them in school, (college is coming), got much higher fixed costs...
Yeah, they could dive back into that rat race for the majors if they wanted, but you look in the mirror in the morning, as you get ready to commute again, and ask yourself, "Do I want to start all over again?"
To be on the bottom, at some base far from home; how many years to upgrade vs. how many years left until 65. Where would you be bidding then, at what base? What would your QOL be? How many years until your pay matches what you make now? (+4 for me), and when would you break even?
Eventually, you reach a point where your family is more important than getting to a major. I understand why a lot of senior guys stay put, the marginal benefits don't outweigh the upheaval the move would cause.
My last 2-year FO is off to Atlas... Good for him! I'm really glad things have turned around for you younger guys, but don't ***** at the aged critters taking up space in the left seat, they have good reasons. They're not taking your slots at the majors.
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
10-04-2016, 06:25 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by N19906
Well, I'll give you a little insight as to "Why". (Before we get started, yes, I'm a "poolie" for someone.)
A lot of us got hired before 9/11, and a few after. When that happened, life stopped. A lot got furloughed, some downgraded etc. Then we had the 65 rule. Then we had the 2008 housing/economic meltdown. We've finally gotten to a place where there's a lot of movement to the majors and the regionals are hurting. Thank god!
During that 15-ish year stalemate, what happened? We got older and greyer, and went from twenty-somethings to forty-somethings.
You get a lot more settled as you age. People found girlfriends, got married, bought homes, had kids, put them in school, (college is coming), got much higher fixed costs...
Yeah, they could dive back into that rat race for the majors if they wanted, but you look in the mirror in the morning, as you get ready to commute again, and ask yourself, "Do I want to start all over again?"
To be on the bottom, at some base far from home; how many years to upgrade vs. how many years left until 65. Where would you be bidding then, at what base? What would your QOL be? How many years until your pay matches what you make now? (+4 for me), and when would you break even?
Eventually, you reach a point where your family is more important than getting to a major. I understand why a lot of senior guys stay put, the marginal benefits don't outweigh the upheaval the move would cause.
My last 2-year FO is off to Atlas... Good for him! I'm really glad things have turned around for you younger guys, but don't ***** at the aged critters taking up space in the left seat, they have good reasons. They're not taking your slots at the majors.
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
A lot of us got hired before 9/11, and a few after. When that happened, life stopped. A lot got furloughed, some downgraded etc. Then we had the 65 rule. Then we had the 2008 housing/economic meltdown. We've finally gotten to a place where there's a lot of movement to the majors and the regionals are hurting. Thank god!
During that 15-ish year stalemate, what happened? We got older and greyer, and went from twenty-somethings to forty-somethings.
You get a lot more settled as you age. People found girlfriends, got married, bought homes, had kids, put them in school, (college is coming), got much higher fixed costs...
Yeah, they could dive back into that rat race for the majors if they wanted, but you look in the mirror in the morning, as you get ready to commute again, and ask yourself, "Do I want to start all over again?"
To be on the bottom, at some base far from home; how many years to upgrade vs. how many years left until 65. Where would you be bidding then, at what base? What would your QOL be? How many years until your pay matches what you make now? (+4 for me), and when would you break even?
Eventually, you reach a point where your family is more important than getting to a major. I understand why a lot of senior guys stay put, the marginal benefits don't outweigh the upheaval the move would cause.
My last 2-year FO is off to Atlas... Good for him! I'm really glad things have turned around for you younger guys, but don't ***** at the aged critters taking up space in the left seat, they have good reasons. They're not taking your slots at the majors.
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
As for the slowing of regional hiring I'm really interested in seeing the numbers year over year for new hires.
10-04-2016, 08:07 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by N19906
As for a new-hire shortage. Yeah, it's happening. We're below our hiring targets, and there are some really unique "characters" in the ones we are finding.
10-04-2016, 09:35 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Left seat of a big one.
Posts: 120
Great post N19906. Probably better to have got on with a regional and stayed than gone the expat route. Am one of those fellow 40+ year olds who was waiting on a NWA class before 9/11 then got on with ATA around 2003...2 years and 2 kids later was on the way down the expat path figuring it would be 5 year adventure (max) then came age 65....11 years later and looks like I'll be starting back at the bottom of a regional just to get home.
10-05-2016, 03:46 AM
#50
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,920
I never understood the "golden handcuffs" argument from regional lifers.
Plenty of guys in their 40s are starting over at the bottom of the majors, with all of the same family, kids, money, and quality of life challenges mentioned above.
Our families are more important than our careers, too...and that "marginal benefit" obtained by the "upheaval" of moving on to a major airline is to the tune of about $3+ million of additional income (depending on where you go to work, of course) over the course of the rest of the flying career. In addition, once you get past those initial painful years of reserve, commuting, etc, the schedules and work rules are substantially better at the majors than at the regionals. That translates to more time at home for the next couple decades -- if you so choose to even work that long, since smart financial planning will allow you to retire before 65 (or 67!).
Yes, the upheaval is a pain in the dong, but if you really care about your family life then the financial and schedule reward they will pretty quickly have after you've made the jump to the majors is a worthy payoff.
Anyone who will take the time to sit down and run the numbers can see this if they want to. Unfortunately, I think so many lifers can't get past the very temporary pain of bottom-of-the-list reserve and commutes to crappy domiciles. I get it that some folks have a schedule and money that they are "content" with, and have heard all of the "there are things more important than money" arguments, but ultimately the benefit on the other side of the pain is just too good to pass up, IMHO.
Plenty of guys in their 40s are starting over at the bottom of the majors, with all of the same family, kids, money, and quality of life challenges mentioned above.
Our families are more important than our careers, too...and that "marginal benefit" obtained by the "upheaval" of moving on to a major airline is to the tune of about $3+ million of additional income (depending on where you go to work, of course) over the course of the rest of the flying career. In addition, once you get past those initial painful years of reserve, commuting, etc, the schedules and work rules are substantially better at the majors than at the regionals. That translates to more time at home for the next couple decades -- if you so choose to even work that long, since smart financial planning will allow you to retire before 65 (or 67!).
Yes, the upheaval is a pain in the dong, but if you really care about your family life then the financial and schedule reward they will pretty quickly have after you've made the jump to the majors is a worthy payoff.
Anyone who will take the time to sit down and run the numbers can see this if they want to. Unfortunately, I think so many lifers can't get past the very temporary pain of bottom-of-the-list reserve and commutes to crappy domiciles. I get it that some folks have a schedule and money that they are "content" with, and have heard all of the "there are things more important than money" arguments, but ultimately the benefit on the other side of the pain is just too good to pass up, IMHO.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fit29
Regional
18
03-23-2008 03:24 PM
