Asking this here because I figure the regional guys would be the one who'd be familiar with it.

I know that you can count 100 hours of Simulator and Flight Training device time towards your ATP. But what about ATD/AATD? I would imagine not, but figured it'd be worth checking to see if anyone has heard differently.

61.159 (a)(6) for reference.

 

Sim time does not count towards TT.

 

Didn't bother reading, did ya?

I even anticipated this sort of post by putting the appropriate FAR...to no avail.

 

It has to be in a part 121, 135, 141, or 141 training course (not just at a 141 school, but actually has to be a part of an approved training course). But an ATD/AATD does not count, see AC 61-136A

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...AC_61-136A.pdf

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.159

Click on the hyperlinked words in the second link there for additional clarification/specification, if needed.

Incorrect, it absolutely can count for TT in the case of 61.159(a)(6), which is what the OP is asking about.

 

Figured as much, thanks for the sources!

Was part 141, but majority of it was in AATD. Maybe 30 hours or so in a CRJ FTD. Oh well, 30 is better than none. 100 would have been nicer though

Edit: Interesting that the AC uses wording that would imply that the AATD can be used towards an ATP, but never specifies any time that can be used towards it. Perhaps left vague in case they want to allow it in the future? Otherwise I don't know what the point would be..

"2. AUTHORIZED USE. Except for specific aircraft type training and testing, an AATD may be approved and authorized for use in accomplishing certain required tasks, maneuvers, or procedures as applicable under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 61 and 141. The FAA will specify the allowable credit in the AATD LOA for private pilot, instrument rating, instrument recency of experience, instrument proficiency check, commercial pilot, and airline transport pilot (ATP)."

"(3) Provides an adequate training platform for both procedural and operational performance tasks specific to the ground and flight training requirements for Private Pilot Certificate, instrument rating, Commercial Pilot Certificate, and Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate, and Flight Instructor Certificate per parts 61 and 141."

 

You may actually be right there then. I didn't see that part. Worth checking with whomever will be doing your ATP ride, and get a few other opinions from other people who do ATP rides. Basically, find someone who will accept it and is able to explain/defend why they can.

 

That AC refers to "tasks" not "flight experience." So, if someone wanted approval to use an AATD for some part of their ATP ride because their Piper Seminole wasn't IFR or something, they could request to use their AATD for that portion of the check ride.

As mentioned above, correct - only FTD or FFS count towards "total time as a pilot" for the ATP. And yes, has to be in a 141 course (prevents two buddies from randomly logging FTD time at a 141 outside of some structured training). Also, you're able to log the ATP-CTP and airline training courses (142 / 121). OP, that will get you another 30+ hours.

 

For the record, it shouldn't count as TOTAL TIME. It can be used as credited time towards getting the ATP. For example a buddy of mine was hired at a regional with 975 hours total time in his logbook and he was allowed to credit 25 hours of Full Motion Sim time to reach the 1000 hour R-ATP requirement. But he still had 975 hours of total time in his logbook. Not 1000.

 

Awesome, thank you.

yes but as discussed earlier (multiple times), that is not what this thread is about.

 

Semantics. I didn't say anything about total time, but even if I did, would it matter? When applying for the ATP, you can say that it reduces the amount of total time required, or that it is included in your total time for the purposes of this certificate. Regardless, the outcome is the same.

"Total Time" is a misnomer anyway...the FAA uses the term "Total Flight Time" for what you seem to be referring to. They seem to use "Total Time" only when referencing total aeronautical experience, which tends to include approved simulator time. I don't know the regs by heart, so there very well may be examples contrary to what I said, but that's from what I've seen recently.

"(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least: "

"(6) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section or § 61.160 may be obtained in a full flight simulator or flight training device provided the device..."

So from that small snippet, it would seem that total time INCLUDES applicable sim time in regards to a certificate. What people generally log as "Total Time" would more appropriately be called "Total Flight Time."

But again...semantics.

Edit: bolded "obtained" for emphasis.