glassnpowder98

I do hope it continues to drop to keep making Republic a more attractive place to be since growth typically increases QOL for everyone- as long as we grow within proper staffing levels. Would I rather see 170’s flown at mainline? Of course, but this is the S-sandwich given to us so we might as well make it through this part of our careers the best we can.

With that said, if upgrade drops real low I hope pilots come here with the mindset of preparing to become a captain. When upgrade was 4-7 years a lot of guys just sat in the right seat twiddling their thumbs waiting for their number to finally come up and struggled when it was time to upgrade. Aviation is all about timing and luck, so coming from someone who has been here a while I’m not bitter that people have it better than I did. Having your number called for upgrade is the easy part, actually being prepared to pass the training at 1000 hours of 121 takes some effort, paying attention to what your captains do, and thinking like a decision maker from day one.

njd1

I just arrived on property. One of the more vocal instructors who was doing an upgrade class at the time came into our class to tell us that the washout rate was almost 50% for the most recent upgrade class. In his opinion the root cause was that the FOs got too comfortable in the right seat and failed to take a more active role in the process of flying the airplane. Meaning, they always deferred to the CA and thus were ill-prepared to serve as CA.

Toward that end he encouraged us to consider ourselves "captains in training" and to take an active role in flying the airplane from day 1. Arrive at the aircraft and the CA isn't there yet? Go through the can, write up any squawks, talk to maintenance to remedy, get the thing fueled/catered, etc., plug in the clearance, etc. etc. In other words, fly it as if you were the only guy there.

I'll be happy if I upgrade around 2 years on property. Not sure I'd care to upgrade before that.

glassnpowder98

Njd1 welcome aboard. That was exactly what I was told as a new hire- CA in training. If you take that seriously you have a lot better chance of being successful. The fail rate is pretty amazing as well since you have almost two months from when you receive your CA award and show up for training. Plenty of time to get reacquainted with the logbook, release, and ask some questions if you’ve been sitting on your hands the last two years. However, you’re still going to lack basic CA decision making skills if you haven’t been paying attention to that aspect. When I went through upgrade we were told decision making was a big reason for failures. Basically, make a decision, reevaluate and change it if needed, but show CA authority and make a decision.

ItnStln

Why won’t they?

mto7464

What happens if you fail the upgrade?

When I was FO years ago for a 135 operation I did all the preflight stuff except weight and balacne so the idea of just sitting there would be foreign to me. If guys are failing that's just lazy.

CptGSXR

Good question, from what I have heard it's because they feel pilots reach a point where they become untrainable. (personally disagree but wasn't asked) for example, recruiters like to see a recent upgrade or type. It's said that sitting on the same plane more than 5 yrs without a training event is a flag saying you might not be the best candidate for training.

Also, many of them aren't willing to start over at the bottom. After gaining 20 yrs seniority, life is good living in base. So there is that too, however my point still remains that they shouldn't be bitter, just that I get why they are.

glassnpowder98

You go back to being an FO and after a certain amount of time (can’t remember exactly) you can bid for CA again. If you don’t make it after a second failure you will be let go.

njd1

True, and one of the many reasons I came to Republic instead of PSA. PSA is forcing upgrades right now, and there are guys that have been on property ~18 months being pushed into the left seat...or else. That seems wrong to me on many levels.

Geardownflaps30

It’s usually a year before they let you try a second time.

ItnStln

Thanks for the explanation! Isn’t that age discrimination?