Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-16-2020, 05:55 AM   #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
black cat's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingm2 View Post
Hi Everybody,
I am a current CFI about a year away from going to class, and should be picking my class date towards the end of this year. Currently, I have job offers at Republic and PSA (both of which are through the cadet programs). I am also considering interviewing at Endeavor potentially when the time gets closer.

I live in North Carolina, so living in base is only an option at PSA way down the road since CLT is super senior. I do not mind commuting within reason, as I would like to stay/live in the NC area. Up until this point, my end goal has been American (for various reasons) and my heart has been set on PSA mostly, however, I have been hearing some things and reading up on some things at mainline AA that are making me more open to other opportunities- I would still like to end up at either AA, DAL, UAL, or SWA.
Everything else in terms of QOL, culture, a/c, etc. screams Republic except one thing... Career progression and attrition. This is one area I don't know much about and have not seen stats on where RJET pilots move on to. I have heard rumor (mainly from my WO friends) not to go to Republic as it is "easy to get stuck" since there is no flow, interview program, or any type of advancement "pipeline"... I personally can't check any minority boxes, but will have a 4-year degree and very clean background- No FAA or other violations. From the way it looks now, Republic also seems to be the better place to be should the economy turn down sometime in the near future as well... .
What is the general consensus about coming to Republic in terms of advancement/attrition?

I know that most of AA new hires come from Wholly Owns, but anymore, I am not sure if I am set in stone on going to AA.
I have a little time to decide, and really riding out the rest of this year depending on what happens at the said airlines will also help me make a better decision.

Thanks in advance for the help.
I'm an AA pilot. First of all, like others have said, you don't need to get too wrapped around the axle worrying about it this far out. This industry is so dynamic and it's quite possible the whole landscape looks different by the time you're ready to apply to regionals. Having said that, I'll address some of your points.

AA has been hiring primarily from the military and its WO regionals in the past. A very small margin of guys have gotten through the door that didn't come from one of these sources. But starting in 2020, that is changing. AA is beginning to greatly amp up its hiring. The goal is to hire 1,400 pilots this year. The number of flowthroughs that AA takes each month isn't changing, for now. So this will open the door for many more street hires. Historically, roughly 50% of new hires have come from the flowthrough program. In 2020, that's dropping to about 30%. This is just the beginning of a massive hiring wave at AA. Retirements don't even begin to peak here for a couple more years. The company is just trying to get ahead of the game.

Now...this obviously makes the flow program at the AA WOs less valuable. So it's entirely possible that AA could increase the number of guys that flow each month to help recruiting at its regionals and keep them staffed. Only time will tell. AA is a great place to work and the career progression in the future is unprecedented with the amount of retirements forthcoming. It's not the only game in town though. The other legacies and FedEx and UPS offer excellent opportunities as well. One point I'll make though is unless you're willing to move from North Carolina, PSA and AA are the only places that will allow you to avoid commuting. And until you've experienced commuting in the flesh, you don't realize how miserable it is. It may sound okay on paper but until you've lived it you don't know how much it sucks.

Bottom line, the biggest hiring wave in the history of the airlines is about come upon us. You'll have absolutely no problem moving on from a regional to a major airline. So it just comes down to what you're after. If AA specifically is your goal, I'd probably do the PSA deal just to have that insurance policy in your back pocket just in case you couldn't get to AA through the front door. If you're open to airlines outside of the AA brand, then by all means choose wherever your heart desires. Good luck.
black cat is offline  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:47 PM   #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TransWorld's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,323
Default

Well put, black cat.
TransWorld is offline  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:22 PM   #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Longhornmaniac8's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Austin, TX
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by black cat View Post
I'm an AA pilot. First of all, like others have said, you don't need to get too wrapped around the axle worrying about it this far out. This industry is so dynamic and it's quite possible the whole landscape looks different by the time you're ready to apply to regionals. Having said that, I'll address some of your points.

AA has been hiring primarily from the military and its WO regionals in the past. A very small margin of guys have gotten through the door that didn't come from one of these sources. But starting in 2020, that is changing. AA is beginning to greatly amp up its hiring. The goal is to hire 1,400 pilots this year. The number of flowthroughs that AA takes each month isn't changing, for now. So this will open the door for many more street hires. Historically, roughly 50% of new hires have come from the flowthrough program. In 2020, that's dropping to about 30%. This is just the beginning of a massive hiring wave at AA. Retirements don't even begin to peak here for a couple more years. The company is just trying to get ahead of the game.

Now...this obviously makes the flow program at the AA WOs less valuable. So it's entirely possible that AA could increase the number of guys that flow each month to help recruiting at its regionals and keep them staffed. Only time will tell. AA is a great place to work and the career progression in the future is unprecedented with the amount of retirements forthcoming. It's not the only game in town though. The other legacies and FedEx and UPS offer excellent opportunities as well. One point I'll make though is unless you're willing to move from North Carolina, PSA and AA are the only places that will allow you to avoid commuting. And until you've experienced commuting in the flesh, you don't realize how miserable it is. It may sound okay on paper but until you've lived it you don't know how much it sucks.

Bottom line, the biggest hiring wave in the history of the airlines is about come upon us. You'll have absolutely no problem moving on from a regional to a major airline. So it just comes down to what you're after. If AA specifically is your goal, I'd probably do the PSA deal just to have that insurance policy in your back pocket just in case you couldn't get to AA through the front door. If you're open to airlines outside of the AA brand, then by all means choose wherever your heart desires. Good luck.
Thanks for the great post, black cat . All good things to think about. While the flow is the surest way to make it to AA, as Dylan said, "the times they are a changin'." While AA could plausibly increase flow to help cover other attrition/retirements, doing so wouldn't be without a detrimental effect on their regional operation. I think it's far more likely they leave the flow where it is to ensure a comparatively predictable amount of attrition from the wholly-owned regionals.
Longhornmaniac8 is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:13 AM   #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
BravoTango's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8 View Post
Thanks for the great post, black cat . All good things to think about. While the flow is the surest way to make it to AA, as Dylan said, "the times they are a changin'." While AA could plausibly increase flow to help cover other attrition/retirements, doing so wouldn't be without a detrimental effect on their regional operation. I think it's far more likely they leave the flow where it is to ensure a comparatively predictable amount of attrition from the wholly-owned regionals.


Flow may be the surest, but also it could be the slowest...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BravoTango is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:57 AM   #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KCaviator's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web265 View Post
There are several that went to majors before upgrading, I'm guessing they had jet PIC from another employer. One of my classmates left for United in 6 mos (prior mil)....

Last month about 45 left RAH for greener pastures, 9 total pilots that we know of went to the "Big 3", 3 of those were FO's.

The rest went all over including: Jet Blue, Allegiant, Atlas, UPS, Spirit, Frontier..
Iím not trying to be pessimistic, but 9 out of 45 isnít great. Thatís only 20%.. And out of those 9, how many had prior military experience? My guess is the majority. So for a pure civilian pilot, the current odds of moving from YX to the Big 3 still arenít great. Probably less than 5% of those moving to the Big 3 are pure civilian with no military background.
KCaviator is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:16 AM   #16  
Line holder
 
Upntheair27's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: N/A
Posts: 234
Default

I don't know a single person that got stuck at republic unless they were lazy and never updated logbook or had some crazy skeletons in closet. Your wholly owned friends are just drinking that koolaid. Their flow takes forever so their mouths are gonna be real blue. Also RWs contract, work rules, moral and pay is better than PSAs. Hands down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingm2 View Post
Hi Everybody,
I am a current CFI about a year away from going to class, and should be picking my class date towards the end of this year. Currently, I have job offers at Republic and PSA (both of which are through the cadet programs). I am also considering interviewing at Endeavor potentially when the time gets closer.

I live in North Carolina, so living in base is only an option at PSA way down the road since CLT is super senior. I do not mind commuting within reason, as I would like to stay/live in the NC area. Up until this point, my end goal has been American (for various reasons) and my heart has been set on PSA mostly, however, I have been hearing some things and reading up on some things at mainline AA that are making me more open to other opportunities- I would still like to end up at either AA, DAL, UAL, or SWA.
Everything else in terms of QOL, culture, a/c, etc. screams Republic except one thing... Career progression and attrition. This is one area I don't know much about and have not seen stats on where RJET pilots move on to. I have heard rumor (mainly from my WO friends) not to go to Republic as it is "easy to get stuck" since there is no flow, interview program, or any type of advancement "pipeline"... I personally can't check any minority boxes, but will have a 4-year degree and very clean background- No FAA or other violations. From the way it looks now, Republic also seems to be the better place to be should the economy turn down sometime in the near future as well... .
What is the general consensus about coming to Republic in terms of advancement/attrition?

I know that most of AA new hires come from Wholly Owns, but anymore, I am not sure if I am set in stone on going to AA.
I have a little time to decide, and really riding out the rest of this year depending on what happens at the said airlines will also help me make a better decision.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Upntheair27 is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:18 PM   #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
itsmytime's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upntheair27 View Post
I don't know a single person that got stuck at republic unless they were lazy and never updated logbook or had some crazy skeletons in closet. Your wholly owned friends are just drinking that koolaid. Their flow takes forever so their mouths are gonna be real blue. Also RWs contract, work rules, moral and pay is better than PSAs. Hands down.
if you seriously donít know anybody at republic (or any regional) with no skeletons that wants to move on and canít, you donít know many people.
itsmytime is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:20 PM   #18  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upntheair27 View Post
I don't know a single person that got stuck at republic unless they were lazy and never updated logbook or had some crazy skeletons in closet. Your wholly owned friends are just drinking that koolaid. Their flow takes forever so their mouths are gonna be real blue. Also RWs contract, work rules, moral and pay is better than PSAs. Hands down.

It really depends where you want to be. If AA is your absolute must have goal you'd be dumb to look at the past and think that republic is the best way to go. For whatever reason, AA just doesn't hire from you guys much at all. As others have said we are entering uncharted territory and it very well could change, but you can guess just as well as I can how it will shake out.

People are flowing from PSA and PDT in less than five years. Talk down the flow all you want but I don't see republic sending 6 guys (PDT) and 15 ish guys (PSA) to AA every single month after less than five years on the seniority list.... Numbers don't lie. Didn't list Envoy cuz I don't know much about them and their deal is complicated with protected and non-protected pilots. Flow won't be nearly that quick for someone today but just pointing out that you're either being negative on other airlines to make yourself feel better or you just don't know what you're talking about.
Bluetaildragger is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:50 PM   #19  
Gets Weekends Off
 
itsmytime's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetaildragger View Post

you're either being negative on other airlines to make yourself feel better or you just don't know what you're talking about.

Most likely some some of both.
itsmytime is offline  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:44 PM   #20  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SonicFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,475
Default

To play devil's advocate, AA could also slow the flow to a trickle in order to keep their regionals staffed and instead hire from EDV or other regionals.
SonicFlyer is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Attrition dadman3000 Piedmont Airlines 6 12-06-2019 11:32 AM
Attrition Azorian Envoy Airlines 6 02-17-2018 07:13 AM
Final attrition numbers for MAG 2007 ERJ Driver Regional 10 01-19-2008 01:17 PM
Republic attrition rates RedBaron007 Regional 67 04-30-2007 08:52 AM
XJT vs. SKW attrition rates... palgia841 Regional 3 03-04-2007 07:36 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:51 PM.