Republic? A new TA??!! What?!
10-02-2015, 05:58 PM
#103
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 571
Originally Posted by FirstClass
Is it the LBFO or the LBFO plus new changes?
IE - I think what outsiders want to know is if the company moved off of its LBFO position or not. If so, was it before or after the NC resigned?
IE - I think what outsiders want to know is if the company moved off of its LBFO position or not. If so, was it before or after the NC resigned?
10-02-2015, 07:58 PM
#106
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 69
Republic Airways Holdings | Last Best and Final Offer
the entire TA can be found here for those who want reading material.
the entire TA can be found here for those who want reading material.
10-02-2015, 09:27 PM
#110
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 58
The sad thing is that people are even considering this. There are no pilots out there. In the past Japan, China, India paid big bucks to get foreign pilots to fly their airplanes.
Now, because of such low pay for so many years there are no pilots here either. We are now no different than those foreign countries. Why should there be a difference in pay? The bottom feeder airlines in these countries are starting captains out at 110k a year base pay. First year Captain pay with this contract at Republic is $60,336.
Because the unions have allowed the airlines to ignore the contracts and compete for new pilots with signing bonuses, all anyone looks at is first year pay and the signing bonus. The new hires are going to spend 9 months on first year pay (12 minus 3 months on lower training pay) and the next 6 to 10 years on half market wages.
The dialog needs to be changed. The bonuses must go unless they are going to every pilot at the airline. Why should the new hire get a one time bonus and the productive pilots get nothing? New hires need to look at the pay of the airlines over the next 7 years and not just the next year.
The purpose of the bonus is to avoid the contract and change the pay for one person so that the rest can continue to be paid with an outdated pay scale. It is kind of like a house of prostitution paying 15 year old girls 1000 their first day to get them started. Then they are owned by the house for the next 15 years and have to take what the madam gives them.
The airlines are also dangling the chance to get to a major, an interview or a slot. I have been at a couple of airlines that had these agreements and they always ended right before it was time for guys to move on. The airline would be sold. The airline would be shut down. Bankruptcy. Eagle is the only one that I have seen work. Compass had an agreement but then ended it when Delta took over, except for around 200 guys. Delta can handle taking 200 pilots from one of its regionals but it can't take 1000 a year, and it won't. Nobody can say these agreements won't happen but history says not to count on it.
What are the airlines asking you to pay them for these agreements? They want you to work for half pay for 5 to 10 years for the chance for these agreements to finally get you to the major. Lets say 3 years as an FO working for 30, then 35, then 40k below market. Then maybe 5 years as a captain working for 60, 70, then 80k less than market. And my numbers are very low. That is 305,000 the airline wants you to pay for your interview at the major.
The airlines know that 60% of you will leave for another airline within 6 years. The airline knows that things will change and there is a good chance they will not have to bring you over. The airline knows that in 4 years your contract is over and the agreement to bring you over is over/ subject to change / subject to being renewed or not renewed with the major airline. Are you really willing to pay 305,000 for the unlikely chance that it will happen.
Chances are you will move to a major without the use of the transition agreement and your 300 to 500k that you paid will be gone. One way you have paid and did not benefitted from the agreement and the other way you paid for something you would have gotten anyway.
That's my opinion.
Now, because of such low pay for so many years there are no pilots here either. We are now no different than those foreign countries. Why should there be a difference in pay? The bottom feeder airlines in these countries are starting captains out at 110k a year base pay. First year Captain pay with this contract at Republic is $60,336.
Because the unions have allowed the airlines to ignore the contracts and compete for new pilots with signing bonuses, all anyone looks at is first year pay and the signing bonus. The new hires are going to spend 9 months on first year pay (12 minus 3 months on lower training pay) and the next 6 to 10 years on half market wages.
The dialog needs to be changed. The bonuses must go unless they are going to every pilot at the airline. Why should the new hire get a one time bonus and the productive pilots get nothing? New hires need to look at the pay of the airlines over the next 7 years and not just the next year.
The purpose of the bonus is to avoid the contract and change the pay for one person so that the rest can continue to be paid with an outdated pay scale. It is kind of like a house of prostitution paying 15 year old girls 1000 their first day to get them started. Then they are owned by the house for the next 15 years and have to take what the madam gives them.
The airlines are also dangling the chance to get to a major, an interview or a slot. I have been at a couple of airlines that had these agreements and they always ended right before it was time for guys to move on. The airline would be sold. The airline would be shut down. Bankruptcy. Eagle is the only one that I have seen work. Compass had an agreement but then ended it when Delta took over, except for around 200 guys. Delta can handle taking 200 pilots from one of its regionals but it can't take 1000 a year, and it won't. Nobody can say these agreements won't happen but history says not to count on it.
What are the airlines asking you to pay them for these agreements? They want you to work for half pay for 5 to 10 years for the chance for these agreements to finally get you to the major. Lets say 3 years as an FO working for 30, then 35, then 40k below market. Then maybe 5 years as a captain working for 60, 70, then 80k less than market. And my numbers are very low. That is 305,000 the airline wants you to pay for your interview at the major.
The airlines know that 60% of you will leave for another airline within 6 years. The airline knows that things will change and there is a good chance they will not have to bring you over. The airline knows that in 4 years your contract is over and the agreement to bring you over is over/ subject to change / subject to being renewed or not renewed with the major airline. Are you really willing to pay 305,000 for the unlikely chance that it will happen.
Chances are you will move to a major without the use of the transition agreement and your 300 to 500k that you paid will be gone. One way you have paid and did not benefitted from the agreement and the other way you paid for something you would have gotten anyway.
That's my opinion.
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