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Why would a pilot jump?

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Why would a pilot jump?

Old 07-31-2022, 05:31 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by CoefficientX View Post
Thatís a well done analysis, very informative. Iíll place my bet on the kid trying to get a look at the gear by opening up the rear cargo door (it was still open on landing), they hit a pocket of turbulence and fate sent him on a 4,000ft free fall to his death. It was a turbulent day, 2:30pm, TS in the vicinity, the guy in the video said that aircraft is known to be less forgiving as you move aft. I believe it, we have the same issues on E175ís with turbulence related injuries with our FAís working in the aft.

My Monday morning QB feedback would suggest they should have done a low pass with tower to confirm a possible gear issue. On the ATC tape they claimed to have 4 hours of fuel. They had more than enough fuel to fly multiple low passís with tower. Also not a whole lot of experience in that flight deck.

Last edited by Str8 Cash Homie; 07-31-2022 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 07-31-2022, 06:13 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Str8 Cash Homie View Post
Thatís a well done analysis, very informative. Iíll place my bet on the kid trying to get a look at the gear by opening up the rear cargo door (it was still open on landing), they hit a pocket of turbulence and fate sent him on a 4,000ft free fall to his death. It was a turbulent day, 2:30pm, TS in the vicinity, the guy in the video said that aircraft is known to be less forgiving as you move aft. I believe it, we have the same issues on E175ís with turbulence related injuries with our FAís working in the aft.

My Monday morning QB feedback would suggest they should have done a low pass with tower to confirm a possible gear issue. On the ATC tape they claimed to have 4 hours of fuel. They had more than enough fuel to fly multiple low passís with tower. Also not a whole lot of experience in that flight deck.
I am thinking the remaining pilot would have relayed to ATC he lost someone along the way but so far havenít heard any mention of that. When he declared the emergency he stated 2 souls on board. One would think someone rolling out the back would be worthy of another call to ATC. Maybe he did but I havenít heard any reporting of it.
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Old 07-31-2022, 09:07 PM
  #23  
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How would a pilot know he had lost a landing gear? Being fixed, there would be,no gear indication.
His emergency declaration to atc included the remark that ďWe lost the right landing gearĒ.

If they knew, somehow the gear was missing, why on earth go back and try to ďsee itĒ?
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Old 07-31-2022, 10:36 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Anyone who has ever flown a jump aircraft knows that you're safer outside, than in. Generally that involves the option of a parachute, however.
Back when I was young(er) and foolish(er) I used to skydive. The jump pilot routinely wore a parachute any flight there was going to be an open door and jumpers aboard because of the risk of inadvertent parachute (usually reserve parachute) deployment. If that happens with an open door, the jumper usually canít control the chute and it will find its way outside, dragging the jumper along and frequently fouling (or removing) the empennage. https://generalaviationnews.com/2016...ings-down-182/

Never was on a load that warranted a copilot but imagine the rules for them would be similar.I suppose itís possible he jumped intentionally, meaning to use the reserve parachute, but was too low to get it to function - especially if he was counting on the automated function for deployment which was possibly already below its set triggering altitude.
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Old 08-01-2022, 08:07 AM
  #25  
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I'd have to guess he fell accidentally. Suicide is pretty far out there. Way far.

I very seriously doubt that anyone who knows the slightest thing about parachutes and skydiving would rely on an AAD as the primary means of deployment. That's almost ludicrous.

Also can't imagine a pilot bailing out of a functional plane with hours of gas on board without coordinating the location and timing with the other pilot.

I have however known GA pilots to hang out of doors and try to fool with stuck landing gear, without a chute.
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Old 08-01-2022, 08:35 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
You don't think the FAA takes depression and other mental illnesses serious?
Have you read of the battles with CAMI/FAA with pilots who have a diagnosis of mental illness?
USMC,

I think that what the other poster meant was that the FAA is not UNDERSTANDING about depression, etc., therefore pilots cover it up like police officers used to and maintain a ďCode of SilenceĒ, lest they lose their careers.., IMHO.
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:18 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by EnergyManager View Post
Maybe the pilot who landed asked him to do something stupid like look at the gear from an open door, and now since the guy died, he is claiming he jumped to avoid blame.
That was my thought as well.
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:36 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Back when I was young(er) and foolish(er) I used to skydive. The jump pilot routinely wore a parachute any flight there was going to be an open door and jumpers aboard because of the risk of inadvertent parachute (usually reserve parachute) deployment. If that happens with an open door, the jumper usually canít control the chute and it will find its way outside, dragging the jumper along and frequently fouling (or removing) the empennage. https://generalaviationnews.com/2016...ings-down-182/

Never was on a load that warranted a copilot but imagine the rules for them would be similar.I suppose itís possible he jumped intentionally, meaning to use the reserve parachute, but was too low to get it to function - especially if he was counting on the automated function for deployment which was possibly already below its set triggering altitude.
Wearing the parachute isn't required when dropping jumpers (it used to be, for some aircraft), and depending on the aircraft, often isn't possible, due to the seating configuration. I've flown jumpers on and off for thirty years, as well as been a jumper myself for about 35, and have flown jumpers at a dozen or so different drop zones over the years, and a lot of different aircraft types. Sometimes I wore a pilot rig (thinner, more compact parachute; single parachute packpack or seat rig), but sometimes not. As noted, any escaped material, pilot chute, etc, from inside an aircraft can quickly turn fatal. My personal preference in jump operations when piloting is to have a parachute with loose leg straps; tighten on the way out or on the way down (anyone who has jumped with loose leg straps understands, at the moment of opening, why they're a bad idea).

I don't speculate, and won't, as to why this individual was separated from the aircraft. The possibilities are endless. The airplane has a big, open hole in the back; the tailgate, which opens and closes hydraulically. It's a big open square tube with seats along the sides, but nothing to grab on the way out the back if the aircraft were to be maneuvered suddenly or one were to lose one's balance and fall. Personally, I would never be out of the pilot seat in there with a door open, and no parachute. Clearly a door was open, else the subject couldn't have left the aircraft. Low-time, inexperienced guy in his first job outside instructing, right seat. Most low time guys who are gaining experience flying jumpers, aren't jumpers, haven't jumped, have never done more than wear a parachute, and don't really have a full understanding of the parachute, it's use, or what to do with it once out of the aircraft, and may have a reluctance to jump (normal, especially if one has never jumped). Again, I won't speculate on this individuals experience with jumping or parachutes, but he was low time and low experience.

Rampart is well known in the jump world. They do a lot of military training, and civil flying of jumpers. I won't comment on Rampart, other than to say they do a lot of flying, in and out of jumping, and a lot of civil and government work.

Regarding whether one should be outside the aircraft inspecting gear, a harness and tether would be preferable to a parachute, but again, the reasons and why's and what happened will come forth shortly; speculation is unprofessional. One doesn't count on an AAD for deployment...not sure why that would come up at all. So far as an AAD; there isn't an altitude below which it won't operate. The AAD requires a minimum altitude AND a predetermined rate of descent to activate. No one jumps with the idea of allowing the AAD to do the deployment, however, with the exception of experimental and test deployments; when the AAD does operate, it doesn't deploy any faster than the jumper operating a reserve ripcord, because it does the same function. It cuts the closing loop for the container and releases the same pilot chute that the jumper would release with the ripcord; the ripcord is what's through that closing loop that gets cut by the AAD (Cypress, etc). Reserve deployment will be faster and more reliable than main deployment on a tandem/piggyback rig, given variables with pilot chute operation, body positioning, etc, while the reserve uses a spring-loaded pilot chute to get the pilot chute into a free airstream, away from the jumper. Not really an issue here, given that the subject pilot is reported to have worn no parachute.

Ground personnel at the aircraft on the ground in RDU did report back to their dispatch that the other pilot had "jumped with no parachute." Whether that came from the pilot or was their summation based on what they'd heard, is not clear.
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Old 08-01-2022, 10:24 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by B727DRVR View Post
USMC,

I think that what the other poster meant was that the FAA is not UNDERSTANDING about depression, etc., therefore pilots cover it up like police officers used to and maintain a ďCode of SilenceĒ, lest they lose their careers.., IMHO.
That would be much more understandable...and with some mental illness problems showing up in mishaps - I don't see the FAA losing 'interest' in forms of mental illness. Hopefully they will continue to make progress with accepting effective treatments.
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Old 08-02-2022, 12:29 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Anyone who has ever flown a jump aircraft knows that you're safer outside, than in. Generally that involves the option of a parachute, however.
Flying your typical mom and pop fly by night skydive airplane, absolutely.

This was not that kind of operation.
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