Why would a pilot jump?
08-05-2022 | 08:27 AM
#61
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That story has been re-told many times, but was never true.
Inevitably a few more will come out of the woodwork with supposedly true stories that they've heard about, relatives they knew, or friend-of-a-friend accounts. They're never true.
In 2016, Like Aikins did a freefall from 25,000 into a large net complex in a one-off event, sans parachute rig or a wing suit. It was a first.
Inevitably a few more will come out of the woodwork with supposedly true stories that they've heard about, relatives they knew, or friend-of-a-friend accounts. They're never true.
In 2016, Like Aikins did a freefall from 25,000 into a large net complex in a one-off event, sans parachute rig or a wing suit. It was a first.
In fairness, not all of these were free falls. Ms Vulovic had the aft third of a DC-9 around her for most of her fall. Weird stuff happens in aviation. I knew one guy - an old F-4 back seater - who ejected as his AC rolled in the landing flair at Red Flag (stuck leading edge flat, high speed approach, too much asymmetric lift as the plane slowed). All the vectors cancelled out. He never got a chute but was able to walk away with just scuffs and bruises. The front seater didn’t make it.
Last edited by Excargodog; 08-05-2022 at 08:49 AM.
08-05-2022 | 05:26 PM
#62
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I'm taking the liberty of assuming that it's more likely he fell out while inspecting the gear, than that he jumped intentionally.
I'm also assuming it's slightly more likely that he committed suicide than that he thought it would safer to try to freefall into a lake from 3500 than land with a missing wheel.
This is one of those times when I think it's useful to talk about this before the final comes out because others might learn to be careful when troubleshooting gear problems.
Kind of doubt the final will be conclusive anyway. The investigators will probably reach the same conclusion I did, but have no way to disprove the survivor's version.
I'm also assuming it's slightly more likely that he committed suicide than that he thought it would safer to try to freefall into a lake from 3500 than land with a missing wheel.
This is one of those times when I think it's useful to talk about this before the final comes out because others might learn to be careful when troubleshooting gear problems.
Kind of doubt the final will be conclusive anyway. The investigators will probably reach the same conclusion I did, but have no way to disprove the survivor's version.
08-09-2022 | 04:40 AM
#63
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Comms with ATC
08-09-2022 | 09:14 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
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Because of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
Best not to assume.
That door isn't very far aft, and once you get out of the seat, there's nothing between you and the door. The aircraft flies at a positive deck angle all the time; it's a downhill roll between you and the open door, without anything to grab except a bench seat on the way out. There is a left side door forward of the propeller, but the best view of the gear would be from the ramp, looking forward. One would definitely want to be wearing a harness for that. If the wheel was believed gone, perhaps by ground observation, or other, verification of the extend of damage might be appropriate.
I've had damage before involving other aircraft inspecting my exterior, and I've done the same with other aircraft when they've had damage, so it's not unreasonable, if able to throw on some goggles and look past the edge of the ramp, to do so, but certainly with appropriate precautions. Ideally a harness and tether, or if unable a parachute rig.
It's not far at all if one's off balance or tumbling, to reach that open ramp. Going out the side door is a non-starter. it's very difficult to open in flight, and is directly in front of the propeller.
That door isn't very far aft, and once you get out of the seat, there's nothing between you and the door. The aircraft flies at a positive deck angle all the time; it's a downhill roll between you and the open door, without anything to grab except a bench seat on the way out. There is a left side door forward of the propeller, but the best view of the gear would be from the ramp, looking forward. One would definitely want to be wearing a harness for that. If the wheel was believed gone, perhaps by ground observation, or other, verification of the extend of damage might be appropriate.
I've had damage before involving other aircraft inspecting my exterior, and I've done the same with other aircraft when they've had damage, so it's not unreasonable, if able to throw on some goggles and look past the edge of the ramp, to do so, but certainly with appropriate precautions. Ideally a harness and tether, or if unable a parachute rig.
It's not far at all if one's off balance or tumbling, to reach that open ramp. Going out the side door is a non-starter. it's very difficult to open in flight, and is directly in front of the propeller.
08-09-2022 | 09:58 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
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08-09-2022 | 11:58 AM
#66
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
08-09-2022 | 09:25 PM
#67
Disinterested Third Party
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
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Because of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
One one occasion, had I information that a tank door was open, I'd have known I had a blown actuator, and it would have saved me a spare 20 gallons of H5606 that I poured in flightt, addressing a gear and flaps issue. On another occasion, an exterior inspection I made of another aircraft yielded a decision to land him last, due to potential loss of the runway; until an inspection was done, we didn't know what was available or the extent of the problem, and it was good information to have.
Checklists don't cover everything.
Which procedure do you suggest they run for "wheel fell of,f" or "landing gear may be partially attached or damaged?"
08-10-2022 | 08:22 AM
#68
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,945
Likes: 709
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Because of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merion_air_disaster
I am against flybys and/or any creative maneuvering when troubleshooting a landing gear.
No one can do a thing to change the outcome, I'd run the checklist and land the plane.
FWIW...
Ad hoc inflight inspections by other random aircraft are definitely not OK. You need to do some planning and coordination for formation flying of any sort, and participants need to be trained.
Exception for mil, since they do form flying as a matter of course.
08-10-2022 | 08:43 AM
#69
Perennial Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 14,198
Likes: 240
Tower flybys, down the centerline, are fine. That's a normal-ish maneuver.
Ad hoc inflight inspections by other random aircraft are definitely not OK. You need to do some planning and coordination for formation flying of any sort, and participants need to be trained.
Exception for mil, since they do form flying as a matter of course.
Ad hoc inflight inspections by other random aircraft are definitely not OK. You need to do some planning and coordination for formation flying of any sort, and participants need to be trained.
Exception for mil, since they do form flying as a matter of course.
08-10-2022 | 09:01 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 129
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Probably it was better said by Rick:
I don't want to improvise formation flight with an unknown pilot and different aircraft types for what?
No inspection will fix anything (again, simple GA aircraft) that will influence the outcome.
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