Avanti down in FNT
11-20-2011, 04:37 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by SenecaII
I'm not sure how to read your statement considering, because I'd hate to think they had ZERO backup data in a single engine failure. Considering how it turned out in VMC imagine had it been IMC? Avanti is Part 23 cert. I assume? Any Redundancy?
11-20-2011, 06:12 PM
#32
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by SenecaII
I'm not sure how to read your statement considering, because I'd hate to think they had ZERO backup data in a single engine failure. Considering how it turned out in VMC imagine had it been IMC? Avanti is Part 23 cert. I assume? Any Redundancy?
An operating generator and associated energized conductors produce magnetic fields. So, if a generator stops, those fields disappear and the magnetic environment is different from the one present when the compass was swung. At that point, the compass card will not have valid corrections.
Follow?
11-20-2011, 08:25 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: Piper passenger
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
An operating generator and associated energized conductors produce magnetic fields. So, if a generator stops, those fields disappear and the magnetic environment is different from the one present when the compass was swung. At that point, the compass card will not have valid corrections.
Follow?
Follow?
11-21-2011, 04:37 PM
#34
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 5
I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........
11-21-2011, 06:38 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: CE680
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by ScardyCat
I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........
Does that mean we work more than one day in a row?
For the record, I will hereby confirm that I work back-to-back duty days. Multiple times.
And I thought YOU bailed a while ago?
Last edited by mainiac; 11-21-2011 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Added text
11-21-2011, 07:46 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 178
Not that it has any bearing on this accident, but not all airplanes have wet compasses.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.
11-21-2011, 10:01 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: CE680
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Kritchlow
Not that it has any bearing on this accident, but not all airplanes have wet compasses.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.
So, in simple terms, everything is still powered, (both "sides").
11-22-2011, 02:19 AM
#39
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 1
I understand this place is called "pilot lounge", but before expressing personal views with no reference to reality, please think twice.
For an Avanti II (like the one crashed in Flint) :
With a single gen, only unpowered load is freon cooling.
With a dual gen failure, you still keep powered ADC 1, AHC 1 plus EISIS (so, 2 indipendent references both for attitude and speeds)
With dual gen and battery failure (not yet to be heard on a P-180) you still have EISIS (attitude, speed, altitude, vertical speed) plus mag compass.
Mag compass is locked to about 240° hdg when pitot, windshield heaters, forward wing anti-ice and landing lights are powered.
It's there to work when everything else has failed.
Rather than italian weirdo, certification rules.
These are the facts.
For the rest, let NTSB guys do their (usually great) job.
After all, even if it's a lounge, still it's showing "pilot" on the sign
For an Avanti II (like the one crashed in Flint) :
With a single gen, only unpowered load is freon cooling.
With a dual gen failure, you still keep powered ADC 1, AHC 1 plus EISIS (so, 2 indipendent references both for attitude and speeds)
With dual gen and battery failure (not yet to be heard on a P-180) you still have EISIS (attitude, speed, altitude, vertical speed) plus mag compass.
Mag compass is locked to about 240° hdg when pitot, windshield heaters, forward wing anti-ice and landing lights are powered.
It's there to work when everything else has failed.
Rather than italian weirdo, certification rules.
These are the facts.
For the rest, let NTSB guys do their (usually great) job.
After all, even if it's a lounge, still it's showing "pilot" on the sign
11-22-2011, 11:17 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by ScardyCat
I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........
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