jungle

Not seeing the down side there. Federal prisons are an interesting place, weapons of any type are absolutely prohibited-yet they have an extremely high murder rate. Much of it accomplished with rather crude weapons.

Being the egalitarian sort, I am perfectly happy to let the anti-gun nuts go about their business by leaning on others for protection.

Thanks to all the FFDOs and cops and citizens for being responsible.

I agree that open carry is a bad idea, mostly because it is a poor tactic when surprise is important.

Unfortunately, we have all had to relearn that a boxcutter can be quite the distraction from safe conduct of the flight.

It may surprise you that many here have been able to manage one or more fairly sophisticated aircraft and conduct war at the same time.

Duckdude

I agree. Pilots shouldn't have guns - they need to concentrate on flying. Imagine how much worse 9-11 would have been if the pilots had been distracted by guns, rather than concentrating on their flying.

Thedude

If we would have had the program then, 9-11 most probably would not have happened.

Molon Labe

I think that's what he meant.

cardiomd

That's complicated. As many others have noted here, in the media, and in the security community, the prevailing mindset at the time was cooperate with hijackers in short term to ensure nobody is killed, see what demands are, negotiate a bit, perhaps release some foreign prisoners "coincidentally", then get the vast majority home safely, like in TWA 847 if any of you are old enough to remember that drama as it unfolded.

It is way too simplistic to say "oh, if the pilots had a gun back then, 9/11 wouldn't have happened." At that time, the pilots probably might have ultimately (and nobly) surrendered their weapon to save passengers if the hostages were back there slitting a pax's throat every 20 seconds until they did so. The pilots probably would have assumed they were essential to fly the plane and would still effectively remain in command of the aircraft.

Obviously the mentality has now significantly changed, and now the decision to risk sacrifice of some passengers, even perhaps the whole the plane, to prevent even more casualties on the ground may prevail.

jungle

Prior to 1968, pilots were not searched or grilled prior to taking command of the aircraft they were scheduled to fly. They were also allowed, and sometimes required(Postal regulations) to carry a handgun. Most just carried a small .38, no training program, it was just assumed any grown man could do what was simply required and they did.

Then came the crime of aircraft hijacking, mostly just by fruitcakes wanting to participate in the then current fad of Cuba.

Then came cooperation with criminals and lunatics as a policy.

The result was that many aircraft were destroyed and people murdered over the years culminating in the mass murder of 3,000 or so people.

Progress is not always forward and upward.

HIFLYR

No, I would have to hate myself since I am a full time airline pilot, part time deputy and several of my close family members are LEOs locally and federal. I also donate my airplane for search and rescue, looking for meth cookers etc. I also was a FFDO "I resigned when I started flying internationally" so I have seen both sides. I was simply dispelling the myth that all LEOs meet the same standard of training that is vastly superior than FFDOs.

I give my brother in law who is a LEO grief all the time about speeding. It is my observation that a lot of LEOs speed all the time, it's sort of like calling a Pilot cheap.

My main concern as a FFDO was accidentally leaving my weapon in the hotel when I checked out. An accidental discharge handling the weapon the way we had too, as that is statistically when most accidental discharges happen. I believe that most FFDOs could be entrusted with strong carry, especially with a simple addition of weapon retention training during requal training.

Fishfreighter

Or like the former FFDO who left his weapon in an airport bathroom?

wizepilot

This was just another example of someone, probably with no prior training except for the FFDO program, of not being aware and responsible for the importance of the role. I have carried a weapon on me or with me for over 30 years. I am not an LEO. I learned from when I was young the importance of being aware and responsible for the carrying of a firearm. I live in a state where open carry is allowed as long as you have a permit. My personal preference is to conceal carry however. I personally believe had pilots been able to carry on 911, it just may have averted that tragic day or possibly lessened the loss of life. There are two up front, and there is an autopilot. Sounds simplistic, I know, but who knows? My .02.

Ottopilot

FFDOs have better gun retention stats than FAMs & LEOs. Find a better argument.