rocketman3746

I just have a question about the FAA's 16 hour duty day limit as it pertains to being on call, or on reserve at a part 135 carrier. When I was at the regionals, your 16 hours started when your on call period did. Now, my company is saying that my duty day starts when my I report for an assignment not when my on call shift started. Anyone have any insight? I know in the ALPA FTDT pamphlet, they say that when you are required to be near a phone in order to report for work if the company needs you, that is not rest. But where does it say that in the FAA regs? Just need something solid to back me up. Here's the assignment I was given today as an example:
On call period from 0430-1000
They call me at 0900 for a 1230 report, to finish at around 2100.
I believe that when I finish at 2100, I cannot look back and see at least 8 hours of rest, since my on call period is not rest. What do you guys and gals think?

vanbyriver

It's the same principle whether 135 or 121. On call is not defined by regs. If your are required to answer phone and report, then you are not in rest. If you are not in rest, then you cannot look back to find required rest period. There is no limit on how long you can be "on call." However, if you are on call for 24 hours, upon being given a duty assignment, you would have to be placed into rest. It is the dirty secret in 135 that many carriers blatently ignore this limitation. This is very fertile ground for an knowlegeable attorney post-accident, particularly for punitive damages where fatigue can be shown to have contributed to accident. Review the FAA Chief Legal Counsel Interpretations on the subject.

Best luck and fly safe

rocketman3746

Great answer. Thanks, Van!

deadstick35

135 is 14 hours, not 16. As far as the 24 hr on-call....

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...009/Mayors.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...2009/Berry.pdf

wmuflyboy

Umm theres a lot of different situations that you can have in your example above. Things like, what time did your day end the night before? When does it start the next day? Are you on call every day from 0430-1000?

And I think you have your regs messed up as mentioned above. Its 14 hour duty day and then 10 hours rest if I am not mistaken.

Are you planning on going at your company about this?

rocketman3746

If you were asking me, then no. The on call thing is pretty new to our company so I just needed some guidance to show them what they can and cannot do. As it stands, I had our union reps call the on duty manager, and they all agreed I shouldn't take the assignment until they were sure about the interpretation. But since my first post, I have found some good things that clearly state that being on call is not considered rest. Someone else posted it above as well... 135 On Call Rest Interpretation

Guess I'll have to go double check, but I'm fairly sure they can give us reduced rest and a 16 hour duty day if need be, but not sure if there's an exception for being on call. It's very rarely an issue, except for a few of the outstations that regularly work a little over 14 hours a day at least 3 days a week...

deadstick35

Nope. 135.273 is for FA's and 135.271 is for HEMES. It sounds like your ops are on demand so the "scheduled" crew limit of r-r in 135.265 does not apply either.

rocketman3746

Guess I should have specified. We are a scheduled part 135 operator, so I'm sure that does apply, but I'm too tired to go look it up just now...

SR22

Looks like you've already got your answer RM, but here's a little more info.

That Mayors interpretation actually gives recent clarification to the FAA's position that time spent on-call is considered duty time specifically for the purposes of part 135. Long before that, though, there were many interpretations that specified that time spent on-call could not be considered rest time.

No matter which part one operates under, a legally sufficient rest period must be: a continous period of time, assigned in advance, and free from work or the present responsibility for work should the occastion arise. Present responsibility = Duty.

It's really quite clearly spelled out in 135.263(b), though many people would like to ignore it, thus all of the Chief Counsel's opinions.

Some charter operators even pushed the issue as far as the United States Court of Appeals at one point, and the Court shot them down.

Here are a couple of links to threads which have discussed this at length and include links to various legally binding documents:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...-not-rest.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...l-vs-duty.html

Good luck!

chritz1179

Ok so here's a question/example. Can a 135 on demand have their pilots on call 24hrs a day? Basically by the phone having to be available 30 mins from the airport. Can some one simple tell me if this is legal and point to a reg or FAA interpretation?