USMCFLYR

When Alaska passengers put pressure on pilots to make foolish, or deadly, decisions | Alaska Dispatch

I find this to be an interesting article.
The article makes particular mention of the separation of pilots from passengers, and even Air Ambulance pilots from the patients in back, to preclude undue/unreasonable pressure from the *mission* influencing the pilot's go/no-go decisions; but this article concentrates on the *outback* type of Alaskan operations and brings up a valuable point.

I'd like to hear from past and current pilots whom have flown under these circumstances that have stories of pressure from passengers to sahre and how did you handle it, or would have handled it differently.

Yoda2

First, I do not believe these issues are confined to AK nor are they disporportionate to any significant degree. I have flown in AK as well as the lower 48... I rarely felt pressured by a PAX, and if I did it made no difference in my decisions. While I can empathise, I have no trouble explaning the situation to passengers and saying no or postponing. Further a pilot who will yield to PAX pressure should not be flying. There is an issue however, and it is multifacted. Regarding AK, the locals and natives will normally understand; the pressure, from PAX, when it does occurr will most likely be from a tourist, hunter or someone impaired or otherwise inbalanced. Basically their expensive vacation may not go as planned... The problem with the medivac flights is slightly different. Years ago the industry attempted to isolate patient information/status from the pilots. I agree this was a step in the right direction. The real problem with the medivac industry is the company pressuring pilots. This applies to fixed wing as well as RW operations. However the fixed wing medivac community seems to have a better safety record. The companies pressure the flight crews as there is much money to be made in completing the missions; not to mention just needing to make the payments on some expensive machinery. It very much disturbs me when the NTSB and FAA does not properly address this issue and instead puts it back on the pilot, who is constantly faced with loss of a job and damage to their career for refusing to take certain flights. The buck does need to stop somewhere and it is officially the pilot. However safety is everyones business. It all comes down to money. I fear the employer much more a than a PAX but it is too easy just to throw a dead pilot under the bus while an employer rattles on about their safety policies, Etc. and procures a replacement aircraft and another pilot. I will conceed that many medivac operators do not engage in this practice but too many do...

FlyJSH

Not an Alaska guy, but I sat next to several of my pax. Most were reasonable if given a good layman's explanation. But the jerks continued to put pressure on me, I would say, "Okay, I think we have an 80 percent chance of making the flight safely." They would get all gung-ho... then I reminded them that one has an 84 percent chance of a safe outcome when playing Russian Roulette.

And in the air ambulance arena, a salty ol' boy once said to me, "Kid, whatever anybody tells you, the patient is already dead. Our only job is to insure WE don't kill anybody else."

avi8orco

Alaska??? I get where your coming from there but we get that crap in the terminal going to ORD, LGA, and MSP all the time....."My husband said its clear sky and a little wind in Chicago"...I wish I had a $ for every time I heard that. They are usually the ones filling up the sick sacks in the back when we get the s$/t kicked out of us.

JohnBurke

On only a few occasions have I had pressure from a passenger; more pressure in the past has come from employers than passengers.

During medevac operations, I held to a firm policy of taking no interest in the patient's condition or needs; that was the domain of the medical personnel. I confined my decisions strictly to safety of flight. I was open to requests from the medical crew, but mine was the final word, not theirs, and mine was based only on safety of flight issues. If we could do it safely, we did it. If we couldn't, we didn't.

On several occasions I made decisions which may have had significant ramifications for the patient. Once I turned back during a heart recovery when destination weather decreased. I informed the harvest crew of doctors, and returned to our home base. My understanding was that the recipient of the heart was being prepped, as was the donor, but conditions were not safe for the destination for arrival or departure with no deice and freezing fog rolling in. It would have done no one any good, and wasted the heart, I'm sure, to significantly delay departure, and would have only made things far worse should we have had an incident.

I wasn't on the next shift so I don't know if the harvest was made or not. I may have to face the possibility of having just denied a recipient of his new heart: that was not my concern, and it was strictly a safety of flight issue.

A passenger came to the cockpit one too many times on a fractional flight, screaming and yelling about running out of his favorite mini-bottles of scotch (his wife was stealing them), and not having his favorite tissue. He told me I was a liar and a cheat (he was upset about a fuel surcharge), and got in the way. I finally ordered him to his seat and ordered him to shut up. I told him I'd had enough. I informed the company by satphone, and continued to the destination where I dropped him off uneventfully.

On another occasion with the same fractional operator, during a company-arranged fuel stop, the passenger became irate, screamed and yelled and stomped his feet like a child, and called me several names I'd never heard before. I politely informed him that I was grounding the airplane and that I wouldn't permit him back on board in his condition (he had been drinking on the previous leg). He made demands and informed me that he was a personal friend of the CEO, threatened my job, threatened me, and ordered me back into the air. I refused. Problem solved.

I don't make flight decisions based on pressure; I make them on safety of flight, and given a choice between finding other employment and bowing to pressure, I can always do something else. The same goes for pressure by employers. I've never had a job I've not been willing to shuck in a heartbeat on principle, where safety of flight is concerned. It's a matter of integrity, and I ensure the employer understands that. A good employer respects that position, and a bad employer isn't worth working for.

Airhoss

Back in my Alaska days I had many circumstances where a passenger would insist that we go despite the weather. I also had many passengers try and get me to take extra stuff that would severely overload me. One of the worst offenders was an FAA tech who wanted me to haul an NDB inverter from a small dirt strip which weighed 1400 lbs. That wasn't a problem but loading his 300 lb butt in the airplane as well was going to be the issue from a weight and balance standpoint.

I loaded the inverter then informed him that he wasn't going out on this trip. He wasn't happy and threatened to unload the inverter and have the competition take it instead. Turns out he got to spend the night at the village and the inverter went to Kotzebue and his boss got a call.

I never once bowed to the pressure of a pax demanding that I fly in less than adequate weather. I've heard every excuse, they just bounce off of me, I decided a long time ago that anxious "got to get there pax" will not affect in anyway my decision to operate an airplane.

The worst one I ever had was when I was flying corporate. The big boss wanted me to fly him from Dallas to his hunting ranch in Seminole Texas. The ranch had a 6,000' paved strip. The closest weather report was showing 300' over 1 mile in freezing drizzle.

The boss who was a private pilot "informed" me that we were going to shoot the approach at the nearest airport and when we broke out we were going to ask for a special VFR and follow the highway down to the ranch, no problem!

I of course refused. The boss threatened to fire me I told him I'd rather be unemployed than dead. He fired me. I called my immediate boss and explained the situation. He told me to fly the airplane home. I did and upon arrival at the home field as given a raise and complimented on sticking to my guns. The big boss actually got a talking to from the board and a new policy was put into place disallowing any passenger questioning a safety related refusal to fly from our pilots.

I have heard story after story of guys getting killed after allowing themselves to get pushed. I decided as a young pilot that it was NEVER going to happen to me.

A passenger demanding that I fly when it's unsafe would be like me demanding that my doctors use different drugs and surgical procedures on me because I read about a "better" way to do open heart surgery on the internet. Ain't going to happen.

Std Deviation

The Gulfstream III accident at Aspen comes to mind. Heavy pressure on crew to get in because of the "expensive dinner" that was planned. Curfew issue because of late pax. Verbal argument between dispatch and passenger about not diverting. Several misses by previous aircraft. Passenger approaches cockpit and sits in jumpseat during final approach. Very easy access to the crew in a corporate operation. When flying a Challenger 604 I once had a client that observed me flying at .77 and reached down and pushed up the thrust levers because he , "didn't buy the aircraft to go slow."

bliddel

Getting pressured to fly in bad weather... Reminds me of my second cross country for Private Pilot. Yes, that long ago. I didn't like the weather at all - low ceilings, very marginal visibility, lots of TV towers in the way. So I called my instructor and explained I was not going to fly in that. My instructor had, I think, too much faith in my ability, and he said to get it on home because it was gonna get worse soon. Like a typical newbie, I departed. I soon found my self running scud around a military live-fire range, and radio towers, and finally followed an interstate back to the home city. After I landed, my instructor met me with a sheepish grin, saying he was glad to see me, since there had been tornadoes not far off my route! Ever since then, I've made my own dang weather decisions, and I've been able to live with them, which is what counts.

9kBud

Most times, explaining the reason for the wx delay is enough for passengers. When they want to push the issue, I explain one more time using a more simplified version, then the conversation is over. My favorite saying: "If I don't want to fly in this weather, then you really shouldn't want to fly in this weather."

Airhoss

One of the best ones I ever heard (read) actually.

A famous bush pilot being pushed on taking a trip in bad weather;

"Lady, if you want to die so bad why don't you just go and shoot yourself and save me having to crash a perfectly good airplane..."