To go-around or not.....that is the question.

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09-07-2013 | 07:20 AM

#11

cardiomd

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From: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky8888

91/135 - In our operation, go-around's are a no-fault. In fact, we encourage go-around's if there is any doubt in the approach.

These guys don't seem too concerned about going around, and they are elite pilots.

PBS: Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 1 - YouTube

Seriously though, if you haven't already seen this short video, watch it, it is an excellent feature on training Navy pilots on a tough night made a few years ago.

09-07-2013 | 07:30 AM

#12

USMCFLYR

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From: FAA 'Flight Check'

Often times it isn't even their call whether they go-around (wave-off) or not.
Plus - that wasn't training; that was fleet ops.

09-07-2013 | 09:07 AM

#13

N9373M

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From: 127.0.0.1

No shame............

But how many tell the pax the truth?

There was an a/c on the runway
ATC made a mistake

or

"Folks, we were not in a proper position to make a safe landing, so we're going to get it right on this approach and make a proper/safe/smooth touchdown.

09-07-2013 | 09:28 AM

#14

cardiomd

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From: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

Often times it isn't even their call whether they go-around (wave-off) or not.
Plus - that wasn't training; that was fleet ops.

Yep... my understanding is the LSO or pilot can abort a landing? In reality I'd imagine any number of people involved could make the call, if deck was fouled, etc... The post was more of a joke regarding pilots being ashamed to make a go around.

Ok... fleet ops.

I consider every single flight that I make a type of training.

09-07-2013 | 09:43 AM

#15

cardiomd

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From: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather

Quote:

Originally Posted by N9373M

I seem to be in the minority here sometimes, but just be straightforward and truthful... Most pax are not as edgy and ignorant as some would believe, and the ones that are will act up anyway.

Something said in lay terms like: "we were arriving too quickly for the plane in front of us so had to go around" or "ATC asked us to make a circle for their sequencing" or "wind conditions suddenly changed so we wanted to be safe for the landing" is all honest, informative, and reassuring. Don't blame even if other at fault.

Being misleading, lying, or being hedgy is much, much worse. You don't need to give the gory details, but letting the people in back know what is going on is reassuring, not upsetting.

Besides, it's all on LiveATC anyway.

09-07-2013 | 10:29 AM

#16

USMCFLYR

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From: FAA 'Flight Check'

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiomd

Yep... my understanding is the LSO or pilot can abort a landing? In reality I'd imagine any number of people involved could make the call, if deck was fouled, etc...

It is actually very uncommon for a pilot to take his own wave-off. The pattern is very tightly controlled though. It happens....but not often.

Quote:

The post was more of a joke regarding pilots being ashamed to make a go around.

- yes....I got the humor.

Quote:

Ok... fleet ops.

I consider every single flight that I make a type of training.

That is a good saying that every flight is a training flight.
In carrier ops though - there is a LARGE difference between a training flight and Fleet/Blue water Ops.

09-07-2013 | 09:41 PM

#17

FlyJSH

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From: Out.

The problem with go arounds is there is no flashing light, no bells, or clackers telling us to do it. I'm five knots fast, no biggie. Then, I'm half a dot high, okay, long runway. Then sink rate is 1200 ft per min due to a tailwind. It is the sum of several marginally bad things that lead to a dangerous approach. Determining where grey becomes black when we are often faced with grey becomes tough.

09-08-2013 | 08:51 PM

#18

rickair7777

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From: Engines Turn or People Swim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yazzoo

When in doubt, punch out.

Captain has to fill out a report at my airline for going around but they claim to have a "no-fault go around policy."

Unfortunately even having to fill out a report is at least a slight deterrent to hitting TOGA. For one thing it's more work you have to before you go home (or go to sleep on that short overnight, take your pick) and there's at least an implication that someone is going to be second-guessing how you got there in the first place.

It would be better to have a policy that recommends an appropriate report for informative purposes...IOR if it's not your fault or ASAP if it might be.

I'll do ASAPs even when I'm not at any fault, if there's a systemic issue that might be worth bringing to light.

09-10-2013 | 09:12 AM

#19

Pilotpip

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From: Retired

My former employer required a report for a GA for a long time. It was determined by our safety committee people that this was discouraging them because people didn't want to do the paperwork. This practice was stopped but the attitude persisted for a long time.

I went years without doing a GA outside of the sim. Then in about a 1 month span I did 5 of them for various reasons. Too many lives have been lost because of foolish pride when going around and starting over would have cost only a few minutes.

I'm of the opinion that a company that questions your motives for going around shouldn't be in business. My life is worth far more than the extra fuel I just burned.

09-10-2013 | 04:51 PM

#20

cardiomd

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From: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotpip

I'm of the opinion that a company that questions your motives for going around shouldn't be in business. My life is worth far more than the extra fuel I just burned.

Funny, I was wondering what the actuarial cost of a heavy go-around is for the bean counters. Off the cuff, 20 minute (?) delay or so, 15,000lb/hr (some will be at TOGA power) = 5,000 lbs, approximately 800 gal * 6.50/gal = $5000 + crew time, plus a passenger delay or two with missed connection or complaint. I can't imagine it being more than $8000 or so on high estimates. Anybody know firsthand?