Southwest Lands at Wrong Airport
01-14-2014, 12:53 PM
#242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Capt
Posts: 222
Suspending the dispatcher is weak. Kind of like firing a flight engineer for a taxi incident.
Originally Posted by Bilsch
It was a SWA dispatcher in the cockpit jumpseat...also suspended.
"Southwest spokeswoman Brandy King said Tuesday that a dispatcher was sitting behind the captain and first officer on the flight. Dispatchers work with pilots to plan flight routes and fuel loads after considering weather and other factors.
The two pilots, each with at least 12 years at Southwest, were placed on paid leave after Sunday's flight. The airline said Tuesday that the dispatcher also has been placed on paid leave."
Southwest: 3rd person authorized to be in cockpit - Houston Chronicle
"Southwest spokeswoman Brandy King said Tuesday that a dispatcher was sitting behind the captain and first officer on the flight. Dispatchers work with pilots to plan flight routes and fuel loads after considering weather and other factors.
The two pilots, each with at least 12 years at Southwest, were placed on paid leave after Sunday's flight. The airline said Tuesday that the dispatcher also has been placed on paid leave."
Southwest: 3rd person authorized to be in cockpit - Houston Chronicle
01-14-2014, 01:03 PM
#243
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: FAA ATSI VSRP ERC
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by airbus300
Suspending the dispatcher is weak. Kind of like firing a flight engineer for a taxi incident.
They did say it was with pay at this point. The dispatcher may end up with some paid time off. Not the kind anyone wants, I am sure. A dispatcher is also a certificated airman, so I would hope they have filed an ASAP/NASA to protect the certificate.
An old article from Robert Sumwalt (NTSB): Some ASRS Reports:
"Five reports detailed extraneous conversation with jump seat riders. The ability to ride on an air carrier's jump seat is quite a valuable privilege, but it is important that the additional cockpit rider not be allowed to create distractions. A look at two of these reports:
"While descending into a broken deck of clouds, unannounced traffic appeared at 12 o'clock and less than a mile, climbing up our descent path. In my best estimation we were on a collision course. I immediately, without hesitating, instinctively pushed the aircraft nose down and to the right to avoid impact. The Captain was engaged in a conversation with [somebody] on the jump seat." (ACN 167026)
And in the other ASRS submission:
"This very senior Captain was about to leave on a Scuba diving trip and talked nonstop to the female jump seat rider upon discovering she was also a diver...This [altitude deviation] could have been prevented entirely if this particular Captain...[had paid] attention to his job and observe[d] some approximation of the sterile cockpit below 10,000 feet." (ACN 119289)"
"While descending into a broken deck of clouds, unannounced traffic appeared at 12 o'clock and less than a mile, climbing up our descent path. In my best estimation we were on a collision course. I immediately, without hesitating, instinctively pushed the aircraft nose down and to the right to avoid impact. The Captain was engaged in a conversation with [somebody] on the jump seat." (ACN 167026)
And in the other ASRS submission:
"This very senior Captain was about to leave on a Scuba diving trip and talked nonstop to the female jump seat rider upon discovering she was also a diver...This [altitude deviation] could have been prevented entirely if this particular Captain...[had paid] attention to his job and observe[d] some approximation of the sterile cockpit below 10,000 feet." (ACN 119289)"
http://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnli...x?server=ASRSO
01-14-2014, 02:25 PM
#244
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,934
Originally Posted by vilcas
Personally I think the captain of this aircraft should be downgraded for a year. Although the mistake was probably honest at the end of the day the ramifications of such a mistake could have been catastrophic. I understand that there may be some mitigating circumstances which may change my mind, but if the FMS was working then the Captain should be sent back to the right seat as punishment for such a gross loss of situational awareness. Mistakes happen but there should be consequences for mistakes that are so dangerous where loss of life may have happened.
01-14-2014, 02:52 PM
#245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Originally Posted by vilcas
Personally I think the captain of this aircraft should be downgraded for a year. I understand that there may be some mitigating circumstances which may change my mind, but if the FMS was working then the Captain should be sent back to the right seat as punishment for such a gross loss of situational awareness.
As others have said, how about we let the system work and wait for the outcome, so that we can again Monday morning quarterback, because of course, "we" would have never made such a mistake.
And by the way, what punishment do you propose for the other pilot, who should have been monitoring small things like airspeed, altitude, flight path, glide slope, localizer, navigation, airport, runway, radios, etc, etc., or does he not contribute to this incident, in your eyes?
Last edited by Jetjok; 01-14-2014 at 03:02 PM.
01-14-2014, 03:11 PM
#246
New boss = Old boss
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Jetjok
Yup.. Great idea. Let me get this right. As punishment, you suggest that the offending Captain be downgraded for a year to the right seat. Ok, so now he's bidding number 1, at his current (Captain's) pay grade, flying the best trips with the most time off. Sure sounds like punishment to me.
As others have said, how about we let the system work and wait for the outcome, so that we can again Monday morning quarterback, because of course, "we" would have never made such a mistake.
And by the way, what punishment do you propose for the other pilot, who should have been monitoring small things like airspeed, altitude, flight path, glide slope, localizer, navigation, airport, runway, radios, etc, etc., or does he not contribute to this incident, in your eyes?
As others have said, how about we let the system work and wait for the outcome, so that we can again Monday morning quarterback, because of course, "we" would have never made such a mistake.
And by the way, what punishment do you propose for the other pilot, who should have been monitoring small things like airspeed, altitude, flight path, glide slope, localizer, navigation, airport, runway, radios, etc, etc., or does he not contribute to this incident, in your eyes?
01-14-2014, 03:19 PM
#247
Fun Officer
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 515
NTSB shows pictures of recovered CVR and flight data recorders today (below link). I have a feeling this won't end up well for the crew, and that new procedures will be coming down the hatch for all of us to verify the correct runway AND airport.
https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/4232...900288/photo/1
https://twitter.com/NTSB/status/4232...900288/photo/1
01-14-2014, 03:34 PM
#248
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757/767 Capt
Posts: 648
Reading through all these replies brings to mind how easy it is to have an incident in this job. I've been Flying in the Air Force for 28 years, and the airlines for 19 and just last week as we were being tugged out of our parking spot I noticed the Tug off to my right side at a strange angle. A second later I see a ramper jumping up and down frantically crossing his arms! I immediatly hit the brakes as my 757 rolled backwards towards a United Express EMB-145 parked about 15 yards behind us. Sooooo close to an incident. A few years back (early 1990's) as part of an "Elite" special ops crew I watched one of our instructors come within 500 ft of a 737 (No TCAS back then) which he mistook for our KC-135 tanker that was late, but nearby..Soooo Close... How about on a night paratroop airdrop, dead tired, at night in formation and the green-light time was 32 seconds, so like a good pilot I hacked my clock as a back-up and at 32 seconds I don't hear the Nav call redlight, so I turn it on anyway only to hear the Nav scream "Red Light" at the top of his lungs 2 seconds later because he disconnected his interphone cord by accident and nobody could hear him!! If I waited till I heard him about 10 troopers would have been dropped into the trees and my career would have been scarred and people could have been killed!!! soooo close!!!
Between our airlines working us to the max, flying all night and always getting cleared by ATC for a "visual" (at night),cause its easier, fatigue inducing schedules, and a MILLION other factors its a MIRACLE more incidents don't happen like this. I will never critique another pilot for a mistake....there are just too many moments where things can go wrong and if you can get through to retirement without a scar consider yourself very Lucky!!
Between our airlines working us to the max, flying all night and always getting cleared by ATC for a "visual" (at night),cause its easier, fatigue inducing schedules, and a MILLION other factors its a MIRACLE more incidents don't happen like this. I will never critique another pilot for a mistake....there are just too many moments where things can go wrong and if you can get through to retirement without a scar consider yourself very Lucky!!
01-14-2014, 04:02 PM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by airbus300
Suspending the dispatcher is weak. Kind of like firing a flight engineer for a taxi incident.
If these same pilots had a high speed abort or air return for an engine loss and performed flawlessly, I have no doubt that they would be removed form their trips and given time off until the distractions of the event faded. That's just how it works.
01-14-2014, 04:32 PM
#250
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,461
Originally Posted by Vito
How about on a night paratroop airdrop, dead tired, at night in formation and the green-light time was 32 seconds, so like a good pilot I hacked my clock as a back-up and at 32 seconds I don't hear the Nav call redlight, so I turn it on anyway only to hear the Nav scream "Red Light" at the top of his lungs 2 seconds later because he disconnected his interphone cord by accident and nobody could hear him!! If I waited till I heard him about 10 troopers would have been dropped into the trees and my career would have been scarred and people could have been killed!!! soooo close!!!
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