Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-18-2016, 12:01 PM   #241  
Gets Weekends Off
 
FDXLAG's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 7,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiomd
Teaching "no more than 30 degrees bank" is probably reasonable but I would insist on more knowledge of what presents the actual dangers from any aviator (that is: it is not the bank itself that is a problem).
Which brings us back to the original topic of this thread. What better tool for helping to teach why it is not 60 degrees of bank that is the problem than an AOA indicator.
FDXLAG is offline  
Old 06-20-2016, 06:17 PM   #242  
Gets Weekends Off
 
cardiomd's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
Which brings us back to the original topic of this thread. What better tool for helping to teach why it is not 60 degrees of bank that is the problem than an AOA indicator.
Yes, you do "get it." I agree, it might be a good teaching tool, and I've never argued otherwise. It would certainly be better than saying "never bank more than 30 degrees" or screaming like a schoolgirl when somebody banks further without loading the wing.

Many pilots can understand the concept without the direct AOA install and can fly appropriately. Some definitely appear to find it difficult though, occasionally with fatal results. If you don't know, you shouldn't be flying.
cardiomd is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 06:14 PM   #243  
Gets Weekends Off
 
cardiomd's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
Cirruses are NOT dangerous.

I flew a SR22 in my previous job and have probably 700 hours in the thing - getting a "feel" for them is not an issue whatsoever.
...
The single biggest driver of Cirrus accidents is the aeronautical decisionmaking of the people driving the damn things...
I guess this guy should have been more qualified then. There is a reason I didn't buy the nice beautiful SR22 I test flew. I feel there are numerous design build factors about this plane that leads to the observed outcomes at the hands of a wide variety of pilots.

Kathryn's Report: Cirrus SR22, N401SC: Fatal accident occurred January 25, 2017 near Municipal Airport (KSSF), San Antonio, Texas
cardiomd is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 09:13 PM   #244  
Challenge Accepted Five
 
BoilerUP's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,856
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
I guess this guy should have been more qualified then.
You know absolutely nothing about the cause or factors related to this accident...isn't it a wee bit early to attribute it to the airframe?
BoilerUP is online now  
Old 02-03-2017, 06:18 AM   #245  
Get me outta here...
 
HuggyU2's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bozobigtop View Post
I am tired of seeing the accident reports for this aircraft because the aircraft was more than what the pilot can handle.
There are a flood of these reports coming in, I take it?

You are aware the Cirrus' fatal mishap rate for the past 36 months is .63 per 100,000 flying hours... aren't you?

Last edited by HuggyU2; 02-03-2017 at 06:55 AM.
HuggyU2 is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:10 AM   #246  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 29,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
I guess this guy should have been more qualified then. There is a reason I didn't buy the nice beautiful SR22 I test flew. I feel there are numerous design build factors about this plane that leads to the observed outcomes at the hands of a wide variety of pilots.

Kathryn's Report: Cirrus SR22, N401SC: Fatal accident occurred January 25, 2017 near Municipal Airport (KSSF), San Antonio, Texas

Highly qualified military pilots dying in piston ASEL is nothing new, and I've commented on that before. Apparently GA is different enough that high-performance mil skills don't transfer completely without some disciplined critical thinking and study/training.

I don't think the airplane has design issues, it flies just fine. I think the market niche attracts a certain type of pilot: busy (ie time pressured), successful, and typically pretty self confidant. The glass cockpit (one of the first ones in GA) probably attracts folks who have an IFR mission. The glass and parachute probably enable a false sense of security in some highly confidant pilots.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:13 PM   #247  
Gets Weekends Off
 
badflaps's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,384
Default

We had a guy at my little airport torque roll into the trees on G/A (Gusty.) We got him down with a ladder. A month later he showed up with a new one.
badflaps is offline  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:48 AM   #248  
Gets Weekends Off
 
sailingfun's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Highly qualified military pilots dying in piston ASEL is nothing new, and I've commented on that before. Apparently GA is different enough that high-performance mil skills don't transfer completely without some disciplined critical thinking and study/training.

I don't think the airplane has design issues, it flies just fine. I think the market niche attracts a certain type of pilot: busy (ie time pressured), successful, and typically pretty self confidant. The glass cockpit (one of the first ones in GA) probably attracts folks who have an IFR mission. The glass and parachute probably enable a false sense of security in some highly confidant pilots.
This pilot had a extensive civilian flying background since he was in high school.
sailingfun is offline  
Old 02-11-2017, 05:59 PM   #249  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 29,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
This pilot had a extensive civilian flying background since he was in high school.
I was speaking broadly, not necessarily about any particular pilot. Point being that the cirrus flies fine, and if it has a poor track record (I'm not sure that it does) I suspect that owner demographics play a role.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 02-12-2017, 08:58 AM   #250  
Get me outta here...
 
HuggyU2's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badflaps View Post
We had a guy at my little airport torque roll into the trees on G/A (Gusty.)
Torque roll? A Cirrus?
Can you post the NTSB report, or at least give me the date that happened?
HuggyU2 is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question regarding AOA, Lift, and Airspeed AviatorAston Technical 9 10-15-2013 11:12 AM
Safety through AOA USMCFLYR Safety 15 08-15-2013 04:30 AM
UPS, IPA Memorandum of Understanding Q&A fr8rcaptain Cargo 0 05-12-2009 03:20 PM
Understanding the power struggle between pilots and employers Nightflight Hangar Talk 6 05-08-2006 07:48 AM
Question on AOA 685141 Hangar Talk 2 07-30-2005 01:23 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:21 PM.