Not understanding AoA indicators...
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
A freight pilot talking about AOA how preposterous, that would be like some doctor talking about aviation.
Read the title, what does it say. Not understanding AOA indicators. Yep you are definitely qualified to post in this thread. You may be the only one.
Read the title, what does it say. Not understanding AOA indicators. Yep you are definitely qualified to post in this thread. You may be the only one.
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,479
Can tell a thinly veiled a$$ wiping of two professions when I see one.
I respect physicians. As do I the nurses, paramedics and lab techs that save lives of parents, husbands, wives and kids every day. Sanctimonious sock puppets don’t especially bother me, goes with the territory. But if we don’t take the time to defend the value of our work, our responsibilities, from those who would casually dismiss it; who will?
BTW McQuack, anytime, anywhere…
I respect physicians. As do I the nurses, paramedics and lab techs that save lives of parents, husbands, wives and kids every day. Sanctimonious sock puppets don’t especially bother me, goes with the territory. But if we don’t take the time to defend the value of our work, our responsibilities, from those who would casually dismiss it; who will?
BTW McQuack, anytime, anywhere…
Last edited by METO Guido; 10-03-2019 at 12:32 PM.
#206
Nicely said FAAST
Quote:
FAAST Blast — Week of October 18-24, 2015
Biweekly FAA Safety Briefing News Update
New Video on Angle of Attack Awareness Now on YouTube
Angle of Attack (AoA) devices can provide valuable information during maneuvering flight and have been identified as a mitigation strategy to prevent loss of control accidents.
Watch this video for an analysis of AoA devices in the general aviation (GA) environment. It promotes FAA policy concerning non-required/supplemental AoA based systems for GA airplanes. Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.
On YouTube: https://youtu.be/8JcjWnAJGKQ
Quote:
FAAST Blast — Week of October 18-24, 2015
Biweekly FAA Safety Briefing News Update
New Video on Angle of Attack Awareness Now on YouTube
Angle of Attack (AoA) devices can provide valuable information during maneuvering flight and have been identified as a mitigation strategy to prevent loss of control accidents.
Watch this video for an analysis of AoA devices in the general aviation (GA) environment. It promotes FAA policy concerning non-required/supplemental AoA based systems for GA airplanes. Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.
On YouTube: https://youtu.be/8JcjWnAJGKQ
#207
I think that is where the disconnect lies. The posters here are truly unfamiliar with the way that GA pilots, airfoils, and operations take place, and want to force your way of flying / thinking onto them. This is why my experiences are similar to expert GA pilots, not freight dogs or jet jocks. Unless you are pulling G's in the pattern, ASI give appropriate info and safety margin. If you are pulling G's in the patten or don't have a good feel for the airplane, then IMO you have bigger problems.
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This is where your argument lacks strength. The Pilatus PC-12 comes from the factory with a dual AOA system and is integral to flying this GA aircraft. The Airfoil is the same as your 182, so having an AOA indicator based solely on a specific airfoil shape isn't necessarily accurate. That's why Pilatus thought it was a critical component to help single-pilot doctors and lawyers from killing themselves in this thing. The airspeed indicator is nearly useless if you lose the engine on takeoff and have to execute a turn-back to the runway. You don't have time to look up what your L/D Max speed will be for each of the different flap setting you'll need during that maneuver. AOA provides your realtime energy state to prevent a stall and allow you to maximize the glide distance if necessary, or manage excess energy if necessary, that simply flying a set airspeed will not provide.
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I'd say judge by the scoreboard, not naiive idealism. I don't fly my 182 anywhere near the edges of the envelope (without intentionally doing so), and an AOA gauge would not help my type of flying. After the initial fun factor I'd rarely even look at it.
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You don't fly near the edge of the envelope until something unexpected happens and you have to. Having an AOA indication system may make the difference between success and failure. Once you've flown with an AOA indicator, you'll pay as much attention to it as you do the airspeed indicator.
--------
This is where your argument lacks strength. The Pilatus PC-12 comes from the factory with a dual AOA system and is integral to flying this GA aircraft. The Airfoil is the same as your 182, so having an AOA indicator based solely on a specific airfoil shape isn't necessarily accurate. That's why Pilatus thought it was a critical component to help single-pilot doctors and lawyers from killing themselves in this thing. The airspeed indicator is nearly useless if you lose the engine on takeoff and have to execute a turn-back to the runway. You don't have time to look up what your L/D Max speed will be for each of the different flap setting you'll need during that maneuver. AOA provides your realtime energy state to prevent a stall and allow you to maximize the glide distance if necessary, or manage excess energy if necessary, that simply flying a set airspeed will not provide.
------
I'd say judge by the scoreboard, not naiive idealism. I don't fly my 182 anywhere near the edges of the envelope (without intentionally doing so), and an AOA gauge would not help my type of flying. After the initial fun factor I'd rarely even look at it.
-----
You don't fly near the edge of the envelope until something unexpected happens and you have to. Having an AOA indication system may make the difference between success and failure. Once you've flown with an AOA indicator, you'll pay as much attention to it as you do the airspeed indicator.
#208
I agree it is hard to tell genius from idiocy on a message board. However, over time it tends to become obvious who is knowledgeable, reasonable and who is a zealot.
AOPA had a nice AOA advocacy video too a few weeks ago... sponsored by Aspen Avionics. Had the same information and one-sided advocacy. Take a look if you are a member (under safety videos):
General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA
Install your AOA sensor when you downgrade to a piston single, I don't care! Just don't advocate for nonsensical regulation or tell other pilots what they "need" to fly, or think that it alone will increase safety. Reminds me how some Cirrus pilots "need" a parachute to be safe. Not going to argue that.
#209
AOPA had a nice AOA advocacy video too a few weeks ago... sponsored by Aspen Avionics. Had the same information and one-sided advocacy. Take a look if you are a member (under safety videos):
General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA
Install your AOA sensor when you downgrade to a piston single, I don't care! Just don't advocate for nonsensical regulation or tell other pilots what they "need" to fly, or think that it alone will increase safety. Reminds me how some Cirrus pilots "need" a parachute to be safe. Not going to argue that.
General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA
Install your AOA sensor when you downgrade to a piston single, I don't care! Just don't advocate for nonsensical regulation or tell other pilots what they "need" to fly, or think that it alone will increase safety. Reminds me how some Cirrus pilots "need" a parachute to be safe. Not going to argue that.
Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.
#210
If you need this thing to fly a light GA plane:
then go ahead and spend your $3000. You are correct, every pilot is different. (but stop attempting to tell others what they need to fly safely.)
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