F-16 and single piston collide
07-14-2015, 04:23 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,026
Originally Posted by jungle
Let me sum it up, a Cessna blundered into the approach path of a major airport. This isn't the first or last such incident. There have also been many incidents of piston singles and Twins blundering into bombing ranges and flying into the ADIZ undeclared.
I have seen a few of these and was lucky to see and avoid, but it was only luck.
I have seen a few of these and was lucky to see and avoid, but it was only luck.
Small example; SPORT and Joshua controllers will send your head spinning with the number of GA blundering incidents they deal with quarterly in the R-2508 Complex area alone. That's not including the incidents the ZLA low sector controller's get to enjoy in this same area.
07-14-2015, 05:15 PM
#52
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
FWIW
AOA in the viper is measured from the bore cross (don't ask me the relation to the wing cord line, don't know, and I know that is the definition of AOA) you get about 16 degrees below that to the pitot boom (most restrictive 15 to 20 degrees off the nose you get a whole lot more vertical visibility downward) so if you were at 11 degrees AOA straight and level (ask any viper driver why you would be at 11 degrees AOA unless you were level at MDA or established on ILS final they would say that's too slow in the radar pattern) that gives you 5 degrees below the horizon visibility. The book says 250 in the radar pattern which should give you about 10 or so degrees below the horizon for forward vis most of the time (downwind and base at least)
That's all I got...
AOA in the viper is measured from the bore cross (don't ask me the relation to the wing cord line, don't know, and I know that is the definition of AOA) you get about 16 degrees below that to the pitot boom (most restrictive 15 to 20 degrees off the nose you get a whole lot more vertical visibility downward) so if you were at 11 degrees AOA straight and level (ask any viper driver why you would be at 11 degrees AOA unless you were level at MDA or established on ILS final they would say that's too slow in the radar pattern) that gives you 5 degrees below the horizon visibility. The book says 250 in the radar pattern which should give you about 10 or so degrees below the horizon for forward vis most of the time (downwind and base at least)
That's all I got...
07-14-2015, 06:16 PM
#53
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 984
Originally Posted by TPAW
FWIW
AOA in the viper is measured from the bore cross (don't ask me the relation to the wing cord line, don't know, and I know that is the definition of AOA) you get about 16 degrees below that to the pitot boom (most restrictive 15 to 20 degrees off the nose you get a whole lot more vertical visibility downward) so if you were at 11 degrees AOA straight and level (ask any viper driver why you would be at 11 degrees AOA unless you were level at MDA or established on ILS final they would say that's too slow in the radar pattern) that gives you 5 degrees below the horizon visibility. The book says 250 in the radar pattern which should give you about 10 or so degrees below the horizon for forward vis most of the time (downwind and base at least)
That's all I got...
AOA in the viper is measured from the bore cross (don't ask me the relation to the wing cord line, don't know, and I know that is the definition of AOA) you get about 16 degrees below that to the pitot boom (most restrictive 15 to 20 degrees off the nose you get a whole lot more vertical visibility downward) so if you were at 11 degrees AOA straight and level (ask any viper driver why you would be at 11 degrees AOA unless you were level at MDA or established on ILS final they would say that's too slow in the radar pattern) that gives you 5 degrees below the horizon visibility. The book says 250 in the radar pattern which should give you about 10 or so degrees below the horizon for forward vis most of the time (downwind and base at least)
That's all I got...
See and avoid for all of us.
"Approach path" is not restricted airspace and has no implication on fault, (unless I'm missing something, such as the cessna was VFR in bravo without clearance.) Many airports have runway centerlines that will reasonably conflict, for VFR departing traffic, with other airport approach paths.
My wariest situations are on IFR approaches SCT020 where I'm in and out of the clouds, and worried that some VFR hotshot is weaving in and out of them, just under radar range landing at a nearby uncontrolled next to charlie. Most of my flying is single pilot IFR, so I'd often be mostly heads down in that situation. That might be similar to what happened here, but per METAR I pulled up was essentially CAVU.
Trying to impugn the cessna "wandering into approach path" is callous and incorrect.
Kathryn's Report: Cessna 150M, N3601V and General Dynamics F-16C Fighting Falcon: Accident occurred July 07, 2015 in Lewisfield Plantation, Berkeley County, South Carolina
07-15-2015, 02:40 PM
#55
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 984
Originally Posted by jungle
This is a perfect example of how a fool and his monkey are soon parted.
Sleeping on the railroad tracks.
Sleeping on the railroad tracks.
