ACL,

(Any other ALPA/DALPA apologists/stalwarts/aficionados feel free to chime in.)

Serious question. You (and several others) advocate an effort to change DALPA within the existing ALPA structure and bylaws. More specifically; attend meetings, introduce resolutions, recall representatives (if necessary), etc.

A resolution was introduced (and passed) to publish the data on Flight Pay Loss. That seems a fairly straightforward and simple thing to do. However literally months have gone by and it's still not available.

If DALPA is unable (or unwilling) to comply with this, why should any of us put the effort in to try and change such a dysfunctional organization from within?

Note: I've tried to postulate this question fairly and would appreciate response(s) in that same vein, and not merely a smart a** reply.

October 18, 2011, 11:58 AM ET

Airlines (Even AMR!) Rising; Data Shows Passenger Revenue Growing

By Avi Salzman

Airline stocks rose in morning trading after the Air Transport Association said last night that capacity continued to tighten in the industry in September and airlines are getting more revenue from each passenger per available seat mile.

“The US domestic market (excluding express results) continues to impress, with September traffic up by 0.4% on 2.1% less capacity, for a load factor of 83.6%. Passenger unit revenue growth outpaced the total system and was up by 14.2%,” writes Helane Becker, an analyst at Dahlman Rose.

Becker expects Southwest (LUV) to benefit from the strong domestic environment, because it is the largest mainline carrier in the U.S. Southwest, however, said that it will sell some discounted tickets in November and December, which is a somewhat troubling sign.

Airlines also appear to be performing well in Latin America as passenger unit revenue rose 14.2%.

“Copa Holdings (CPA) will benefit the most from strength in the Latin American region followed by AMR (AMR), United Continental (UAL), and Delta Air Lines (DAL),” Becker writes.





Pineappleguy, Comments? Will this help our chances for Southwest+?

The answer seems to be no. Stalling while waiting for a committee that meets once a month to make recommendations on "how to accomplish" this is deplorable. Anyway to mitigate the damage that committee chairs and such receive 90+ hours a month on the highest equipment they can hold plus 4 figure stipends( all paid for by Delta) seem to be the game plan.

Again, I will note. DALPA is the best advocate for DPA. Their actions, or lack there of, and ALPA's legal ineptitude among other things drive cards in.

TO'Ms PTC showing and the continued stall and delay on providing legitimately comparable AFKLM data serves to sharpen the focus on downward management. The pilots don't like this. Thus, the cards keep coming in, and more and more lanyards and tags are sprouting up on crew members everywhere.

Ultimately DALPA and ALPA will go down due to self inflicted wounds. Real question is.... which one will be first?

I asked about this resolution and lack of a final response last week. I too feel it is necessary for transparency.

The repines that I got was that this FPL resolution/amended resolution and final recommendation from the committee is on the agenda for the Nov MEC meeting.

I do agree that what the pilots are seeing from their Admin is not enough and they want more. Whether DALPA delivers or DPA happens to be a convent alternative lies solely with our pilots.

Wrt to the fpl issue what have your res said? I advocate accountability and recall if needed. DPA to me is a convent place to show anger. They may get to 50% of pilots sending in cards but the harsh reality is forcing sitting reps to change out the DALPA leader or recalling your reps to get someone that would solves the same issues and a lot more expeditiously than voting for an alternate union.

People like me see the same issues you do but for the logic listed above really prefer to take the action that fixes what we have. It is not an endorsement of the current MO.

They've almost got $50,000 now.

What would be cool is if we could say the % we're paying to ALPA could be diverted to the DPA. Then they'd have a lot of money. But I doubt many Captains right now have $1000 or First Officer's have $500 to spare.

Maybe in the next election cycle pilots will run with DPA under their name.

I think there is somebody considering doing just that and I learned that when Slowplay mentioned it but the post was erased for TOS violation on page 3 of this thread.

Also, if someone is DPA and runs and wins would ALPA have them sign a NDA? Seems like they could easily be silenced? Just on the logistics it seems it might be difficult. Could an elected LEC member refuse a NDA?

Not that easy. Power lies in the committee chairs. Not so easy to replace them now is it.

Also, ALPA has horrendous potential legal issues/damages as well as a conflict of interest wrt regionals. How about dues and National bloat?

Now, what looks easier.

This is key. The line pilots, and even the reps, do not get to select these powerful committee members. And I can guarantee you that most of these guys are on board with whatever TO'M and his administration want, which may or may not be in line with what the majority of the line pilots want.

We have a very broken structure that is supposed to be "bottom up" but in reality functions as a "top down." I don't see it getting fixed with what ACL is advocating.

With all this talk about DALPA vs DPA, does it really matter what the official name of union as opposed to who the elected officials are?