Completely missing the point, the Company needs to follow the CBA, period. If they want/need guys flying the 757 on Widebody pay it needs to be negotiated. No different than paying deposit assistance. We need to get away from the "special deals". I said we needed to be flexible.

Obviously I hit a nerve with you, if they need guys in the program for their experience I am all for it. I will not however yield to someone holding a Captain position and pay in a Domicile and A/C they can't otherwise hold without it being put in writing and some quid pro quo on our side of the fence. The FAA deal is a separate issue from the way our CBA covers these issues.

I never said Seniority made a great pilot, but it is the lifeblood of our system. If the Company would have approached the Union and offered Widebody pay for all PCA's/LCA's in advance through the proper channels, maybe the senior guys who have the very same experience would have come forward, maybe not.

Let's get it out in the open and out from the dark corners of AOC, it will not only be the proper way to do business but will protect the guys taking special deals that are not in writing.

Oh I beg to differ. We have several, more than qualified pilots here that can be checked out as LCA. What we have are 2 problems.

1. We don't have in the back rooms of AOC are quoats sayings like will pay you WB pay no matter whether you can hold the position or not. Your an LCA and your someone special.

2. From the voices of AOC: My zipper is up and I feel no suction..............

huh??

posting this Einstein's quote here for the record before it gets edited.

doing the Navy/Marine Corps/fighter pilots proud!!

It's not a question of ability. The length of the syllabus is determined by available instructors, students, simulators, the length and timing of the instructor candidate's vacation, etc...

And glass experience is an absolute must. It is the single most difficult thing for a new guy to grasp. The syllabus is considerably shorter going from one glass airplane to another. There is also a credibility issue here. Like it or not, some people won't learn from someone they feel has insufficient experience to back up what they are teaching. Management and Training know this and they seek those who will lend credibility to the program.

Bottom line here...without recruiting the talent they need, the program won't get off the ground, and the talent is already in either the Airbus or the Maddog, with VERY few exceptions. No one I know would take the pay cut to DOWNGRADE to be an instructor in the 757 when they can already hold widebody captain. Anyone bidding the 757 from the 727 isn't affected, to my knowledge, although until the actual implementation guidlines come out, who knows?

I was told, by some 727 LCAs that are already receiving WB passover pay, that they were told they could go to the 757 as LCAs for 2 yrs and still keep their WB pay. After 2 yrs they had to go to the WB or lose passover pay from that point.

Don't you mean 'old guy?'

Part of the problem is those guys were "told" that, but have nothing in writing to support it. Therefore, IAW with the CBA, almost none of the 757 Flex or LCA/SCAs are actually bidding the 757. They know that "wink, wink, nod, nod," isn't worth spit, so to speak, when the company wants to save a buck.

No argument here!

I don't see how the Company can legally (in relation to the CBA) offer to pay protect a 727 LCA with WB pay if they bid 757. Technically, wouldn't they have to bid and be awarded 757, then in a subsequent bid, bid and be awarded WB Capt to be given WB passover pay while holding 757? I do believe that it is a legitimate scenario, but should be part of the CBA in order to accomplish on the part of the Company.

If the Company feels the need to make offers to optimum candidates for these positions, then they need to negotiate this right with the union, put it in writing to protect the pilots being promised these deals, and make these offers in the light of day so all pilots will know what the options are, and are able to put their application in for the job if they so desire.

The key word here is "negogiate" --- they get something they want...we get something we want.

It's called "leverage" guys...and it's rearing it's (supposedly) ugly head again.