MEC Msg (Getting Interesting FDA/Bid)
11-16-2007 | 02:21 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 943
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From: B-777 Captain
So the next move from the MEC is:
"Boys look at this great side letter we signed with the company for you".
Here is what we got you through our hard work:
$10,000 rental deposit
1,000 lbs for your move
Passover pay for widebody Captains to be instructors.
We worked hard to get this and determined the need for the rental deposit after another grueling trip to HKG and CDG by the negotiating committee.
No need for you guys to vote we know what is best for you and agreed to this in your best interests.
"Boys look at this great side letter we signed with the company for you".
Here is what we got you through our hard work:
$10,000 rental deposit
1,000 lbs for your move
Passover pay for widebody Captains to be instructors.
We worked hard to get this and determined the need for the rental deposit after another grueling trip to HKG and CDG by the negotiating committee.
No need for you guys to vote we know what is best for you and agreed to this in your best interests.
11-16-2007 | 02:43 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Hey, Unskilled,
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
11-16-2007 | 04:10 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
I understand the need for flexibility here, but just like Deposit Assistance they need to negotiate these deals with the Union. If the Company thinks they are going to get us to rubber stamp passover for some 757 guys and not others they would be wrong as well.
There is another 757 issue to be discussed, look at the Seniority level of many of the pilots already in the 757 School House and tell me what you think about that...
11-16-2007 | 04:17 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,184
Likes: 0
From: leaning to the left
What makes any of you think that anything other than the changes Mgmt has already announced are going to be "negotiated" in the new side letter?
I read nothing in DW's letter that would lead me to believe the MEC has any intention of trying to open up the LOA, and really fix it. Sounds to me like they just want a side letter on what's already been announced. Big deal!!
So, if that's the case...What do we do? Vote the side letter down? Then hope nobody bids it?
I read nothing in DW's letter that would lead me to believe the MEC has any intention of trying to open up the LOA, and really fix it. Sounds to me like they just want a side letter on what's already been announced. Big deal!!
So, if that's the case...What do we do? Vote the side letter down? Then hope nobody bids it?
11-16-2007 | 04:27 AM
#45
"blue collar thug"!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: A proponent of...
I was incorrect about the reply from the Grievance Chairman; it was sent to the crew member a few days after he submitted the grievance to the Chairman. My apologies for the incorrect info.
11-16-2007 | 04:48 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Likes: 0
What makes any of you think that anything other than the changes Mgmt has already announced are going to be "negotiated" in the new side letter?
I read nothing in DW's letter that would lead me to believe the MEC has any intention of trying to open up the LOA, and really fix it. Sounds to me like they just want a side letter on what's already been announced. Big deal!!
So, if that's the case...What do we do? Vote the side letter down? Then hope nobody bids it?
I read nothing in DW's letter that would lead me to believe the MEC has any intention of trying to open up the LOA, and really fix it. Sounds to me like they just want a side letter on what's already been announced. Big deal!!
So, if that's the case...What do we do? Vote the side letter down? Then hope nobody bids it?
Exactly, the MEC will just rubber stamp the changes and say look what we got!! The crew force does not vote on a side letter.
The MEC has become the company pawn.
11-16-2007 | 05:28 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
I do have a problem with them paying passover to guys bidding a Narrowbody, regardless if they can hold or currently hold a Widebody seat. The problem here is the Company is once again doing things outside the realm of the CBA. If a guy wants to fly the 757, as an LCA or plain line guy, THEY NEED TO BID IT. If they bid it, and they were getting widebody passover or flying a widebody, they need to be paid Narrowbody pay. Guys who were receiving passover but still flying the 727, would also need PAY BACK the passover pay per the CBA due to a lateral or downbid (section 24).
I understand the need for flexibility here, but just like Deposit Assistance they need to negotiate these deals with the Union. If the Company thinks they are going to get us to rubber stamp passover for some 757 guys and not others they would be wrong as well.
There is another 757 issue to be discussed, look at the Seniority level of many of the pilots already in the 757 School House and tell me what you think about that...
I understand the need for flexibility here, but just like Deposit Assistance they need to negotiate these deals with the Union. If the Company thinks they are going to get us to rubber stamp passover for some 757 guys and not others they would be wrong as well.
There is another 757 issue to be discussed, look at the Seniority level of many of the pilots already in the 757 School House and tell me what you think about that...
So, the Feds require experienced people to stand up a program, all experienced people are getting WB passover pay and noone would do it for a cut in pay. If you want to see the 757 on property, this is a MANDATED (by the FAA) cost of doing business.
Maybe we can look beyond the typical "Hey, they're getting a good deal and I'm not" retarded mentality, get some facts and realize this is the ONLY way the 757 will be flying with FedEx colors. As to your last point, we ALL know that seniority makes you a great pilot...
11-16-2007 | 05:34 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
Hey, Unskilled,
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
It shouldn't take a year to pump out an instructor from a qualified applicant. Somebody is getting hung up on too much minutia. I became a flight examiner and intructor in the F-16C in all of 12 weeks and that was 10 times the syllabus of an aircraft that just goes up and down, straight and level from point A-B.
11-16-2007 | 05:43 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
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If we are going to call out the MEC and note their shortcomings, we should have the integrity to praise them for a what they do right. Looks like they are doing the right thing now.
If all we do is pick our voices WILL be ignored and we will be labeled naysayers.
11-16-2007 | 05:48 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,047
Likes: 0
From: 767 FO
I don't think anyone is saying 75 LCA shouldn't be getting passover. They are just saying put the deal out front so we can all pretend to have the same shot. Don't pick your candidates and then sweeten the pot till enough say OK. Tell us what the deal is then pick your candidates.
Your paycut logic should be exactly the same for the Hong Kong line guys.
Your paycut logic should be exactly the same for the Hong Kong line guys.
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