MEC Msg (Getting Interesting FDA/Bid)
11-16-2007, 05:48 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by av8rmike
The FAA requires a new program to stand up with experienced LCA/PCA/SCA candidates. Additionally, who is going to write and develop the program other than those with past experience? You find me a NB PCA/SCA/LCA who is not getting WB pay or WB passover pay, and I'll buy you a beer.
So, the Feds require experienced people to stand up a program, all experienced people are getting WB passover pay and noone would do it for a cut in pay. If you want to see the 757 on property, this is a MANDATED (by the FAA) cost of doing business.
Maybe we can look beyond the typical "Hey, they're getting a good deal and I'm not" retarded mentality, get some facts and realize this is the ONLY way the 757 will be flying with FedEx colors. As to your last point, we ALL know that seniority makes you a great pilot...
So, the Feds require experienced people to stand up a program, all experienced people are getting WB passover pay and noone would do it for a cut in pay. If you want to see the 757 on property, this is a MANDATED (by the FAA) cost of doing business.
Maybe we can look beyond the typical "Hey, they're getting a good deal and I'm not" retarded mentality, get some facts and realize this is the ONLY way the 757 will be flying with FedEx colors. As to your last point, we ALL know that seniority makes you a great pilot...
Obviously I hit a nerve with you, if they need guys in the program for their experience I am all for it. I will not however yield to someone holding a Captain position and pay in a Domicile and A/C they can't otherwise hold without it being put in writing and some quid pro quo on our side of the fence. The FAA deal is a separate issue from the way our CBA covers these issues.
I never said Seniority made a great pilot, but it is the lifeblood of our system. If the Company would have approached the Union and offered Widebody pay for all PCA's/LCA's in advance through the proper channels, maybe the senior guys who have the very same experience would have come forward, maybe not.
Let's get it out in the open and out from the dark corners of AOC, it will not only be the proper way to do business but will protect the guys taking special deals that are not in writing.
11-16-2007, 06:29 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B-777 Captain
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by subicpilot
Hey, Unskilled,
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
You forget that there are a limited number of qualified individuals to do the PCA/LCA job. It takes almost a year to stand up a new instructor. On top of that, not very many guys go from wide body, glass cockpit F/O to the left seat of the jurassic jet, and even fewer of them become PCA's or LCA's after doing so. So how exactly is the company supposed to pull together, in very short order, a large enough group of already trained, glass cockpit instructors, put a fledgling program in place to stand up a new aircraft and new domicile? The only group to draw on is the bus or maddog, and how successful do you think that will be if that group is forced to take a pay cut? No one would do it. Pay protecting those guys for a couple years is a smart choice. That pay protection has absolutely nothing to do with the LOA. Even MEM based 757 instructors would be included in the pay protection.
1. We don't have in the back rooms of AOC are quoats sayings like will pay you WB pay no matter whether you can hold the position or not. Your an LCA and your someone special.
2. From the voices of AOC: My zipper is up and I feel no suction..............
Last edited by JetJocF14; 11-16-2007 at 09:12 AM.
11-16-2007, 06:58 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD11 FO, ANC
Posts: 1,098
Originally Posted by JetJocF14
Oh I beg to differ. We have several, more than qualified pilots here that can be checked out as LCA. What we have are 2 problems.
1. We don't have in the back rooms of AOC are quoats sayings like will pay you WB pay no matter whether you can hold the position or not. Your an LCA and your someone special.
2. My zipper is up and I feel no suction..............
1. We don't have in the back rooms of AOC are quoats sayings like will pay you WB pay no matter whether you can hold the position or not. Your an LCA and your someone special.
2. My zipper is up and I feel no suction..............
posting this Einstein's quote here for the record before it gets edited.
doing the Navy/Marine Corps/fighter pilots proud!!
11-16-2007, 07:26 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: A300CAP
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by machz990
It shouldn't take a year to pump out an instructor from a qualified applicant. Somebody is getting hung up on too much minutia. I became a flight examiner and intructor in the F-16C in all of 12 weeks and that was 10 times the syllabus of an aircraft that just goes up and down, straight and level from point A-B.
And glass experience is an absolute must. It is the single most difficult thing for a new guy to grasp. The syllabus is considerably shorter going from one glass airplane to another. There is also a credibility issue here. Like it or not, some people won't learn from someone they feel has insufficient experience to back up what they are teaching. Management and Training know this and they seek those who will lend credibility to the program.
Bottom line here...without recruiting the talent they need, the program won't get off the ground, and the talent is already in either the Airbus or the Maddog, with VERY few exceptions. No one I know would take the pay cut to DOWNGRADE to be an instructor in the 757 when they can already hold widebody captain. Anyone bidding the 757 from the 727 isn't affected, to my knowledge, although until the actual implementation guidlines come out, who knows?
11-16-2007, 10:20 AM
#55
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by subicpilot
Anyone bidding the 757 from the 727 isn't affected, to my knowledge, although until the actual implementation guidlines come out, who knows?
11-16-2007, 01:48 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by MD11Fr8Dog
I was told, by some 727 LCAs that are already receiving WB passover pay, that they were told they could go to the 757 as LCAs for 2 yrs and still keep their WB pay. After 2 yrs they had to go to the WB or lose passover pay from that point.
11-16-2007, 01:49 PM
#58
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by fdx727pilot
Part of the problem is those guys were "told" that, but have nothing in writing to support it. Therefore, IAW with the CBA, almost none of the 757 Flex or LCA/SCAs are actually bidding the 757. They know that "wink, wink, nod, nod," isn't worth spit, so to speak, when the company wants to save a buck.
11-16-2007, 02:05 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A300/310 Capt
Posts: 1,642
I don't see how the Company can legally (in relation to the CBA) offer to pay protect a 727 LCA with WB pay if they bid 757. Technically, wouldn't they have to bid and be awarded 757, then in a subsequent bid, bid and be awarded WB Capt to be given WB passover pay while holding 757? I do believe that it is a legitimate scenario, but should be part of the CBA in order to accomplish on the part of the Company.
If the Company feels the need to make offers to optimum candidates for these positions, then they need to negotiate this right with the union, put it in writing to protect the pilots being promised these deals, and make these offers in the light of day so all pilots will know what the options are, and are able to put their application in for the job if they so desire.
If the Company feels the need to make offers to optimum candidates for these positions, then they need to negotiate this right with the union, put it in writing to protect the pilots being promised these deals, and make these offers in the light of day so all pilots will know what the options are, and are able to put their application in for the job if they so desire.
11-16-2007, 02:23 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by fedupbusdriver
I don't see how the Company can legally (in relation to the CBA) offer to pay protect a 727 LCA with WB pay if they bid 757. Technically, wouldn't they have to bid and be awarded 757, then in a subsequent bid, bid and be awarded WB Capt to be given WB passover pay while holding 757? I do believe that it is a legitimate scenario, but should be part of the CBA in order to accomplish on the part of the Company.
If the Company feels the need to make offers to optimum candidates for these positions, then they need to negotiate this right with the union, put it in writing to protect the pilots being promised these deals, and make these offers in the light of day so all pilots will know what the options are, and are able to put their application in for the job if they so desire.
If the Company feels the need to make offers to optimum candidates for these positions, then they need to negotiate this right with the union, put it in writing to protect the pilots being promised these deals, and make these offers in the light of day so all pilots will know what the options are, and are able to put their application in for the job if they so desire.
It's called "leverage" guys...and it's rearing it's (supposedly) ugly head again.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
