It’s my understanding that the 15/13 is the junior schedule and that is what you get out of training. How long before you can hold a different schedule typically?

minimum captain upgrade requirements are 3500 total time and 1500 PIC. Stupid question, but how are you supposed to build that PIC requirement while working as an FO? Are they counting hours that you were physically at the controls as PIC?

thanks.

Yup you got it. PIC by the FAR definition not the job application definition. Also it's been changed to 2000 Total 100 PIC in type recently.

Thank you for the response. Can you describe the upgrade process? It’s a little different than I’m used to. You need recommendations to upgrade?

shrsail,

Upgrade to CA at XO is a combination of factors:

1. Seniority (not strict but for the most part it appears to be going by that standard but XO uses the option peer evaluations to insure CA candidates will successfully upgrade)
2. Minimum number of CA recommendation letters that state the case of why the individual is ready for upgrade
3. Desire to upgrade. No forced upgrades

In a few cases, such as recently when CAs left the company after being furloughed from a 121 carrier, pilots who returned within 90 days maintained their previous seat position. They lost no seniority in returning. Those who came back after that 90 days went to bottom of seniority list

Covid pretty much shut down CA upgrade for 12-18 months but upgrade classes have been occurring since Jan, albeit small numbers but that is changing as classes are becoming more regular and with more than 1 or 2. Hard to estimate upgrade times as the dust is still settling from OALs hiring, inevitable attrition and airplane acquisition can make the guessing game a head scratcher.

hope that helps.

During my final stage interview, I asked about the scheduling. I was told that the 15/13 or the Flex Scheduling is for all new hires. The hope is that they will be able to offer the 8/6 to new hires at some point down the road or possibly as an incentive for longevity or upgrades, but as of my interview date, there was not a specific plan to bring 8/6 back for anyone that does not have it already.

So, you cannot even bid for the 8/6? The 8/6 is grandfathered for people that have it and that’s it? That’s kind of disappointing.

We were told you (new folks and new PICs) could bid for 8/6, and potentially be awarded based upon seniority and how many others chose 15/13 vs. 8/6.

Last announcement to the pilot group was that the company wants 30% of the pilots on 15/13. Not sure how many of us are currently on the schedule, but there are quite a few. We bid schedules annually, and have "mini bids" quarterly.
In short, seniority will determine your ability to hold an 8/6, flex or 15/13. But it's not like you will be there forever. Interviews, hiring, and indoc has resumed. As has attrition out the other side which will feed the cycle.
Personally, I love the 15/13. I work 13 fewer days per year for the same pay, and have to endure 1/2 of the commercial airline pain as my 8/6 counterparts.
Nate

i honesty don’t know. When I did my interview with Ops, the new information about pay and stuff had not been settled. A lot of things came out about a week after my interview - no more B schedule, etc. So, maybe the current employees have more exact info. I don’t start indoc until the 2nd. I only know what the DO told me June 9th.

Management announced a merger of VJ and XO a month ago..one of the consequences is the Challenger fleets will eventually merge. X pilots will remain as is but will have schedule changes also (see below)

They also announced more international flying is planned for all fleets That requires a certain percentage of pilots (both X/CL) to be on a longer schedule. We have 2 types of long schedules, 15/13 (work fewer total days a year as mentioned above) or Flex 18 ($12k a yr extra for SICs)

If the target (that number is being worked out) is met with persons already flying that schedule who are on the property, then the 8/6 schedule would become a player for a new hire. But like anything else, seniority will determine if it would be awarded.

That percentage is being worked out but combining both the 2 long schedules, 18/12 + 15/13 + plus more hiring, the likelihood of having to be on a long schedule for a long period of time as a new hire, maybe just one quarter, would be a decent bet.

As was mentioned the 15/13 schedule is popular as is the Flex 18 and indications there are not going to be a lot of movement from the 15/13 off to the 8/6 but the possibility does exist. As one poster above alluded to, he doesn’t plan to switch. Mileage may vary.

This type of sitiation is much like having to be forced to EWR or MIA when you would prefer a base closer to your home…seniority fixes all of that and will in this case also. The sooner one arrives, the sooner the clock starts with getting what you want schedule wise.

New CAs here will be in the same boat new hires are…they may have been an 8/6 schedule before upgrade but going to the bottom of the CA list “May” result in a forced long schedule. Some may delay upgrade for that, others will gleefully take their spot.

It may not be as bad as you think but only you can make the call…good luck and fly safe.