Race and gender in hiring practices. - Page 14 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#131

skyemiles2 , 07-05-2019 08:23 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyio

I heard point blank from one of this companies top 5 people that you won't see many women pilots here because AA scoops them all up. This was in front of about 20 people. It absolutely happens and anyone telling you otherwise is lying to themselves.

If that’s true, then why aren’t their numbers higher?

5.2% of airline pilots in the US are female, but at AA it is 4.8%, which is fairly in line with, if not very slightly below, the average.

If you look at the WOs, Piedmont and PSA are right in line at 4.8%, and Envoy lags at 3.5%, the lowest percentage of any US regional.

The US Navy has 7% female pilots, for example, and since the military is the largest source of AA pilots outside of the WOs, if they were truly hiring “all of the women”, these numbers should be higher.

#132

Learflyer , 07-05-2019 11:25 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Flieger77

This is a myth, especially at my company.

All we ask is you guys remember there are many well-qualified female pilots out there who take pride in their jobs and fly their ships very well, probably with way more experience than you have.

For those of you *****ing about why you haven’t gotten the major airline call yet, my questions for you are simple: what are YOU doing to make yourself more competitive and marketable so YOU stand out and make the major airline cut? Are you seeking leadership roles in your company, volunteering, mentoring, running a business/non-profit, going to job fairs, or going to school again? Or, like most pilots I know who expect a top-tier major airline career to appear magically in front of them, did you spend the past ten years watching sports, fishing, drinking beer, or otherwise wasting your time?

The female pilots in my sphere did a lot of extra things to get hired at major airlines, and their overall skills and qualifications grew in tandem. Not only did most have a lot of flight hours, they volunteered for ALPA, participated in special company projects, and worked for both profit and non-profit organizations to help their communities.

We used our time wisely because we knew what it took to get hired at our majors. We did the things we needed to do to earn our jobs. We knew by putting in the work, we would get that seniority number first. Putting in the work, making a REAL effort, is what got us the job and that matters more than gender, race, etc.

Female airline pilots are very aware of these debates regarding gender and how we remain a convenient scapegoat for male pilots who are too mediocre or too lazy to be hired by a major. Did you know that at the big three major airlines in the U.S., less than 10% of pilots are women? I and my other female pilot colleagues just laugh, roll our eyes, and dismiss you because you blame such a small minority on your lack of success. Where is your outrage toward the 90% of male and other minority pilots who “stole” your job? If 90% of all pilots hired were better than you, the statistics would say it’s your own fault, not a woman’s.

Get your butt off the couch and out of the bar and do something tangible to consistently improve yourself beyond regular line flying, and remember to always keep learning. Then, just maybe, you’ll get the call.

Nice talking point. There's always going to be more white males in most industries. It doesn't take away the fact that female/minority hires are at the head of the line at least when it comes to interviewing. Don't always land the job...But they get interview invites first.

#133

Cyio , 07-05-2019 11:29 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skyemiles2

I am just telling you what was said.

#134

ItnStln , 07-05-2019 01:37 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Learflyer

Indeed it’s easier for a minority to interview than a non-minority.

#135

skyemiles2 , 07-06-2019 11:50 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyio

I am just telling you what was said.

I’m just telling you actual numbers that don’t support “what was said.”

#136

Excargodog , 07-06-2019 02:37 PM

Perennial Reserve

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyemiles2

I’m just telling you actual numbers that don’t support “what was said.”

Except your demographic numbers ignore the legacy factor. We will soon be retiring a lot of pilots who were hired back when there was nothing even remotely approaching equal opportunity in hiring rate. They have biased your figures and will continue to do so for at least another decade.

The appropriate metric is the gender based hiring rate for TODAY’S candidates, and that adjusted for other factors such as TT, 121 time, and PIC/TPIC.

If there is gross gender and minority parity overall today it can only mean that there has been a lot of hiring recently that has overcome decades of hiring when women and minorities were underrepresented, which they most assuredly were.

#137

Taco280AI , 07-06-2019 04:21 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Excargodog

...
The appropriate metric is the gender based hiring rate for TODAY’S candidates, and that adjusted for other factors such as TT, 121 time, and PIC/TPIC.

If there is gross gender and minority parity overall today it can only mean that there has been a lot of hiring recently that has overcome decades of hiring when women and minorities were underrepresented, which they most assuredly were.

What are you thinking... you can't use logic or reason on the Internet

Rookies

#138

skyemiles2 , 07-07-2019 04:27 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco280AI

What are you thinking... you can't use logic or reason on the Internet

Rookies

When hiring statistics show that females comprise 6-9% of hires, how do you propose that a male being threatened by these numbers is logical or reasonable?

#139

Taco280AI , 07-07-2019 04:43 AM

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If you understand 'Dog's post, there's nothing more to explain.

Am curious though, your 6-9% is from current hiring trends? Source?

IIRC, I think I saw on here women hold approx 5% of ATP certificates. I might be off on that number... but if accurate, 5% of the hiring pool is getting 9% of the new hire positions, wouldn't you agree women are over represented as new hires?

Even if true, men aren't threatened by that because there's really so few women applying in comparison. However, to say they don't have an advantage is false.

#140

ItnStln , 07-07-2019 07:37 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco280AI

Well said! The last time I checked giving one preference due to their gender or race is discriminatory.