Agreed. Our freeze is already lagging our peers. The time for trades is long gone. We need to make overall gains - ie we get a lot more than we give. Also our gives should be win-win type of deals.

We had to trade for most gains when the market was against us, now the market has swung to favor us.

How about we “give” a productive and happy Pilot group willing to happily engage with customers to help DAL obtain a premium over our peers?

Scoop

Where do I sign? 😁

I’m willing to go for pay banding. Maybe a temporary ALV bump. Training freezes are a big nope as we already have the most onerous freezes in the industry.

We have gone from no concessions to lots of concessions fast in this thread.

ALV vs TLV, wouldn’t company want TLV increases as I have seen that force low ALV months at times they didn’t want it, like last holiday season on the 88?

That’s not what I was saying. My point is that many people think that we can demand perceived quality of life improvements and expect no negative downside or something that we’re “giving up”. But if, for example, we keep our opening ask of an increase in vacation time and get it, Delta will have to hire more pilots or reduce the flying schedule to comply with the new benefit. And we know that there is a limit to the number of pilots that Delta can hire and train in a year so they would have to reduce the schedule or curtail the announced expansion.

Every pilot needs to factor that in when demanding QOL improvements (and for the record, I’m a QOL guy).

Wrong. In the very first post of this thread I stated that this is a negotiation and the company will have their wants.

Get out of the BK mindset. While we will certainly have to weigh the companies wants and negotiate in good faith the days of concessions for every gain are history. I am sure we will have some minor concessions and that is fine as long as they are dwarfed by our gains.

Anyone who pounds their chest and says zero concessions is a fool. Even worse are those who insist every gain must be paid for. Fortunately the majority of our Pilots are wiser than the fringe groups on each end of the spectrum.

I am fine with minor concessions for long overdue major gains.

Hopefully UAL sets us up.

Scoop

The company would love no TLV at all (for those wondering, the TLV--Target Line Value--is the contractually mandated average of the prior 12 months ALVs. The range is 75-80).

The company would love to run 65 hour ALVs forever in overmanned categories, and 84 hour ALVs forever in undermanned ones. The TLV prevents that extreme whipsaw abuse.

While I am sure that at times the company hates the TLV, in a way it is a good thing for them. It forces them to plan ahead and put a built-in buffer into the system. Sounds funny I know, given this past summer. But without the TLV, things would be even wackier around here.

We hired 1000/year pre-merger in the late 90s. While training constraints will kick in at a certain point we can definitely ramp up much more.

Scoop

Were there 500-1000 retiring every year then?