How is 4.4 compliant? Because it’s in disposal?


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That is the level if you didn't include those out on medical. Since those out on medical are included per the contract, they are technically in compliance at over 4.7.

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It isn't a simple as that. The majority vote works if the company can get away with something by giving it to the majority of pilots who won't care about anything else. Think of it as single issue voting. Where that falls short or should, at a union carrier is where management doesn't have that golden egg... Problem with all pilots, is that we are money hungry so as soon as we see dollar signs, we tend to forget the minutia.

There is a reason why NJASAP has avoided section 6, and signs very long contracts. I know they work hard, and they are a valuable asset to the pilot group, but they are not nearly as powerful at negotiating as a mainline ALPA negotiating committee.

Except for that whole scope thing

Man, you really reach to try to shine a negative light on NJ. I remember when you said airline pilots would rather not have a job at all than fly for NJ. Maybe you should just chill, and watch a movie or something. Relax!

Did you actually read the entire agreement? There's a lot more in there than just money. Even a few things that only benefit a tiny percentage of our group. Kind of blows up the theory that they only focus on the majority.

Or more likely our union didn't want to leave out the smaller groups who deserve to have a few things.

As for negotiating for what the majority want, well yeah, that's how it should be. Neither the company nor the union would ever get a contract passed if they were trying to figure out how to appease every single sub-group within our pilot ranks.
We should get raises. Oh, but should more of that money go to SIC's? Maybe. But then there are SIC's who live at more productive bases than others. Override pay for SIC's at the more productive bases? And what about bases? There appears to be a very small contingent who want places life HNL, ANC and SJU as crew bases. How much negotiating capitol should we use to get that? Do they get after midnight pay? Should those bases be restricted to only pilots in fleets that go there? Some pilots want more of the FDP money going into our 401K's. Some want less. Some want to keep it like it is. IRS rules don't allow multiple options, so which group gets its way?

I could go on, but I I've made my point. It's not that we shouldn't be trying to make everyone happy, but that it's really not possible to do so. If we want a contract to pass, most of it has to appeal to the majority. Yes, it kinda sucks for whatever minority group someone happens to be in, such as an SIC, but with a group of 70%+ captains we'll never pass a contract that offers, say, the majority of a pay raise to SIC's.

Overall though, I think our union has done a very good job of securing something for everyone, either through contract negotiations, the JWG, LOA's or all of them combined. What percentage of our group actually wanted DAB as a base? Percentage wise, not many. Yet our union never gave up on it. Yes, it took a while, but it got done.

We're doing really well, IMHO.

Actually, technical compliance for all pilots on the list for a fleet in disposal is 5.0. That was part of the most recent IBI.

But we are forced to include those on LOA, most of whom have no intention of returning, in the compliance PPA calculation.

Extremely well said 😎✊

That makes sense on 4.4 then. But then again, 4.4..ouch. I’m sure y’all are probably feeling that pain.


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Medical leave is indefinite? Isn’t there a point where they have to go on disability or something?