I would put the UK in the category of at least they're trying... they have SSNs and CV's which have global power projection utility.

The numbers speak for themselves. Yeah, they are FAR better than Germany which has the biggest GDP in Europe, but their deployable numbers and logistics for sustainment just aren’t that great. Too many “peace divedend”s carved out of their budget for too many years.

maybe you can start a F@ck nato thread then. Unless you are saying we should let russia absorb ukraine for wheat and port access just to “stick it to nato”. Your rhetoric is pro russia as spilled by your propaganda overlords. The reality is that people are trying. Ukraine wouldn’t have lasted the first summer without assistance, so anything you say about feckless allies, (though individually might be true), does not stand the test of actual battlefield success. Wether youre a vlad or a tucker its still just head in the sand right wing bullsh1t. Grow a pair and help out against authoritarian regimes. Or just be a coward and let every authoritarian government know that the US wont stand up to them. Your choice……..vlad

This century: More $, relatively flat % of GDP, but their GDP really spiked.

GDP is a nice metric for NATO purposes but doesn't directly correlate to capabilities. I like expeditionary capabilities in an ally, not too many have that.

Also manpower is not an apples to apples comparison with past decades and the cold war... technology is a tremendous multiplier vs. most of the usual bad guys (who all struggle with innovation). Exhibit A: US military manpower 1990 vs. 2023.

More dollars that still didn’t keep up to inflation.

So show be a metric where NATO in general has improved. And as I granted, the UK is likely the best of the lot, excepting Poland and a few of the ex-Soviet satellites.

Pointing out deficiencies in NATO funding is hardly a “F@ck NATO” thread. It is simply pointing out deficiencies in NATO allies’ funding. Both Bush administrations did that. The Clinton and Obama administrations did that. The Trump and Biden administrations have done that. Yet there has been scant improvement, even since the Ukraine War started.

From President Obama at a NATO summit Sept 5 2014:
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...ess-conference

And China, with a GDP TEN TIMES THAT OF RUSSIA, is the real challenge to our security.

Now you can keep up the “Vlad” and “Tucker” and “grow a pair” bu||**** all you want, it doesn’t change FACTS. The US has other allies BESIDES NATO. Like Japan, So Korea, and the Aussies. Resources we must divert to NATO because the bulk of NATO members are too damn cheap to fund their own defense compromises our ability to defend them and ourselves. That’s a FACT that all your whiny ad hominem attacks and insults won’t change

youre right dude, we should totally let russia have Ukraine because of nato “facts” and “reasons”. Thatll show em.

an appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last
-churchill

otherwise known as cowardice

Fighting in the war-room, poor form..wank, wank,wank Pres. Muffley

[QUOTE=Hubcapped;3651294]youre right dude, we should totally let russia have Ukraine because of nato “facts” and “reasons”. Thatll show em.

an appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last
-churchill

otherwise known as cowardice[/QUOTE

This is exactly what Britain did before World War II. In my opinion Great Britain has taught the US a lot of bad habits in foreign policy.

Obviously a Russian sympathizer being quoted and a cowardly one at that, by your assessment.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

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