double post....

True nightIP however analyzing the state of GLA would suggest otherwise. Stranger things have happened but, I don't worry about the security of my GLA gig (1900 CA) anytime soon. Most of our flying is govt funded, we are still adding airplanes and flying (All Montana flying including Billings starts next month with 10 cities still waiting on service) and we have stayed in the black $$$ all the way through this slump. So, while yes a Jr FO at GLA on RSV is not the greatest there is no sign of a furlough here, by the time this guy turns 23 (using history as a precident) he will have pleanty of senority to be a CA line holder and to date we are still not filling upgrade classes. If you go with a plan to use flt exp with the intention of ending up 121 regional why not secure your # at a 121 carrier not and skip the 135 step? While I agree that single pilot multi is valuable, if you are looking at quality of flight time with the eventual goal of going to a major I don't see anyone on a hiring board frowning upon handflown 121 turbine SIC with progression to PIC. I don't know anything about flt exp except what I have read here but it sounds like most who leave there go to regionals, most who leave Lakes for other airline jobs are going to majors. Seems like if he could get a job here now there might be a step to skip...

Over a year to upgrade from a single-engine C-210, into a Baron? Wow...I didn't know that's how it worked over at Flight Express. If that is still the case, then I change my mind, and think you'd be better off rotting away in the right seat of a 1900, over the left seat in a C-210. I blasted up through the seniority list really quick at Lakes, and always held pretty good schedules with a really good QOL. I would expect more time on the bottom of the list nowadays, however. If you spend 1.5 years in the right seat at Lakes, I am willing to bet you would get some pretty prime schedules by that point. So, even if the upgrades stop at Lakes, life will be good. Extremely frugal, but good. I don't know if there is any great choice for you in this job environment. Like someone else said, be thankful you're young and have time on your side...

The real question shouldn't really be Lakes or FLX it should be what career path do you want to take? What is your ultimate goal with this oh so glamorous career of being a pilot? Do you want to sit in a aircraft with a heavy call sign on your way to Heathrow or look down from FL500 in your Gulfstream at all the airliners you’re passing on your way to Tokyo? Once you answer this question you'll know where to go. Corporate tends to hire corporate because the risk of the person jumping to 121 is far less due to QOL and Pay. I do agree there are a whole bunch of apples with shiny exteriors (SIC Time) but turbine is turbine! I posed this question to a former captain who was on the hiring board of one of your beloved regional’s and the guy with the turbine would be his choice.


P.S. Boxes can't talk and ever aircraft after the 210 with a few exceptions will be dual piloted, learning CRM now with LAKES will benefit you in the future.

I think that the above poster has hit it on the head and i'll give you another reason why:

If you are going to be a 121 lifer, why would you follow some of the other posters advice in "go to flight express and eventually you can work your way up to a regional...." GLA is a regional. I don't understand why you'd go somewhere just to go to a regional?

Also after 15 months if Great Lakes isn't for you go ahead and jump ship to another regional, which would put you in the same boat as Flight Express. Granted you may not have multi-PIC but you will have over 1000 hours of turbine time and a much better chance at getting a corporate King-air job than with 1000 hrs of Baron time.

I personally wouldn't turn down a job unless you have another one waiting for you in this economy. However that being said I currently have an ATP with 1700tt 1000multi pic and 5hrs sic cj3 time current under single pilot ifr 135 in a navajo and I am having trouble finding a corporate gig that I qualify for because of my lack of jet time.

I would consider both jobs stepping stones to better things. With Great Lakes you will have a better chance of meeting insurance requirements for a King Air job if you wish to go that route. In one year if you jump ship from FLX you will have a lot of good quality sel 135 time but that will not meet most company's insurance requirements if you don't have the multi time. vs Great Lakes you should be able to meet those requirements within one year. If you wish to go the airline route you have valuable 121 turbine time. To me that seems like a better bet. But a job is a job and unfortunately it is difficult to be picky these days. Best of luck to you...

John V

Just my 2 cents.

Take the definite job...how bad would that suck if you turned down the class date, only to end up not getting the job at Lakes.

Flying the Beech for another carrier, not doing the flight express gig....I would have to say GLA all the way. The kicker is right before I left it was difficult for captains to get gigs at the majors with only Beech time. Some of the sudo majors yes but, SWA, Delta, United, American no to all. Yet there were a couple to slide through that fence, and USAir, Frontier, Allegiant, and such hired em.

Again like others have said it is all about where you want to end up, all this flying you are thinking about "will put hair on the chest" and isn't easy at all.

In the end, Turbine PIC is king....how can you get it the fastest and move on to better? (Notice bigger isn't always better)

And there you have summed up the biggest problem with the profession. Why should you have to live in your car? Do you not value the education, training and experience you have thus far? The notion that newer pilots have that they are somehow less valuable is why these operators get away with paying everybody crap wages. When people like you, educated, and trained in a profession, stop prostituting themselves the whole profession will take a giant leap forward. There is no reason for a part 135/121 new hire pilot to be making less than 40-45k anywhere in the country.

Managements thrive on people saying pay and QOL isn't a big factor, followed by statements such as.....

So, what you are basically saying is that you will work for free if it gives you the hope of someday going to a major..... You need to seriously look at what has happened in this industry over the last 30 years. The days of prostituting yourself for a few years at a regional or charter outfit and then going to a major are all but gone. Sure, if you stay at it long enough you will eventually get to a major... by the time that happens, you will be a pilot with 7-15 year seniority a decent quality of life and a modest income... you will then have to trade that for bottom of the seniority list at the major with no QOL. Do people still go from charter/regionals to majors; sure they do... but nothing like it used to be... and it will only worsen as places like RAH continue to obtain larger jets, and get used to replace more mainline flying.... while doing so on regional pay and rules.

I admire your enthusiasm, but you need to do a little research, and soul searching. You have spent a great deal of time and money getting to this point in your career. You should not give away your professional skills for free, simply because you think it may help you get to a major... someday. This is the kind of undercutting that everybody likes to point at places like MESA, RAH, CHQ, TSA and complain about.... except instead of underbidding the CPA, your just helping the companies keep the profession underpaid and compensated.

If you were to be hired now, at either place, when the majors do resume hiring there will be a steady supply of Regional and Charter Captains with thousands of hours of turbine PIC on typed equipment heading for those very few (comparatively) jobs. So, the sooner you, and all newer pilots realize that working for essentially free will not get you to a major any faster, the sooner these companies will be forced to pay better wages in the first place.

Other than that good luck & fly safe