Delta Pilots Association - Page 505 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#5041

NERD , 04-19-2011 02:12 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Where is this " filthy and sexually explicit video"? I like that kind of stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here's why it is exactly the same: DALPA's constant series of week long complaints to the ATL chief pilots were allegations of policy violation and agreement violation. The names of the DPA folks against whom the allegations were made, were right there in the crew lounge for the chief pilots to see. Everyone knew their names. If any of DALPA's allegations of policy violations had been correct, management could have chosen disciplinary action against any and all of the DPA folks.

My post above should show you that your parenthetical assumption (NO DISCIPLINE INVOLVED) may or may not be the case. It is up to the Chief Pilot's Office to decide on disciplinary action.

I don't know. I'm also not sure the chief pilot would be allowed to answer that question if you asked it.

It is sad to see. But the antithesis of unionism may well have happened on both sides. DPA will claim they finally reached their limit after a week of constant allegations made against them by DALPA operatives, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the filthy and sexually explicit video that surfaced using Delta's name and denigrating the DPA. DALPA will claim just the opposite.

If I had been the ATL LEC Chairman, I would have set up a table with an ALPA sign and let the DPA talk and advertise their plans completely without restrictions. My sign at the ALPA table would have simply read: "See us if you wish to hear a rebuttal to the DPA's claims." That's how I would have shown my members that I'm afraid of nobody and can fully explain the actions of DALPA.

Carl

#5042

Phuz , 04-19-2011 02:14 PM

Kerbal Rocket Surgeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesabah

(Also, most senior regional pilots are opposed to any such action)

Never met one.

#5043

Rather B Fishin , 04-19-2011 03:08 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

If I had been the ATL LEC Chairman, I would have set up a table with an ALPA sign and let the DPA talk and advertise their plans completely without restrictions. My sign at the ALPA table would have simply read: "See us if you wish to hear a rebuttal to the DPA's claims." That's how I would have shown my members that I'm afraid of nobody and can fully explain the actions of DALPA.

Carl

I tend to disagree that two wrongs make a right but you are correct on the above. DALALPA needs to take the high road and INVITE open debate and exchange of ideas.
P.S. I still don't see the equality of the two incidents

#5044

gloopy , 04-19-2011 03:34 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesabah

Scope enforcement or recapture is not a problem caused by a so called "ALPA conflict of interest". The fact that ALPA represents regional carriers has little to do with DALPA's weak enforcement of scope. The problem is one of unity and the perception of regional pilots. ALPA national or its individual chapters can not put scope back on the mainline simply because its members will not allow it.

There is a small minority of pilots who want to risk the side effects of scope recapture and it's probably less than 10% of the pilots at mainline. (Also, most senior regional pilots are opposed to any such action) This is not enough for ALPA or DALPA to take action. We would all love it if mainline management would park the RJ's or start operating them at the mainline, this just simply isn't reality. There is way too much capital tied up into regional carriers to simply start doing this and there is no known legal course to force management to take that route.

So the risk is real that a scope recapture would involve some sort of SLI with regional carriers resulting in regional pilots receiving windfalls at the expense of mainline pilots. In the long run this would benefit all pilots, however, the short term turmoil would be too much for any union to survive unscathed.

None of that is a factor if scope recapture consisted mainly of sunset clauses as regional contracts expire. Not really that big of a deal to achieve.

#5045

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:36 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Outstanding statement. Well done.

DOH! And you were doing so well.

When are you ever going to back away from the political double speak acl? Always mind the will of the pilots, but make sure the will of the pilots is not a "fools errand"? acl65pilot translation: ONLY mind the pilot's will if in your judgment as union leadership you agree with the pilots will. If you don't agree with their will, just refer to it as a "fools errand", then claim your polling data supports your view...if you were only allowed to show it.

Carl

Jeez Carl;

Point is and was that what we say may not be all of the facts. Better to have all of them than to fall flat on your face.

BTW, I think you will see that I have a position on a great many issues, and they do not always coincide with the majority position and that is fine. I clearly stated my position on the NMB ruling wrt to Republic, and have positions that are not what you think they would be on a great many issues. Some are worth discussing, some are not.

The will of this group was exerted today and when the MEC update comes out, you will see that.

The idea of publishing polling data sounds great at first pass, but the reality is that it also would give the opposition a view of what is minimally acceptable.

#5046

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:38 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here's what you'll never understand. DALPA is currently not defending a blatant violation of Section 1. DALPA is currently sending out communications to get us prepared for the start of Section 6. What are those communications? - Understanding financial statements, cash flow and airline accounting methodologies, etc. Why would they do that unless they are trying to get us to understand management's point of view.

DALPA is weak and totally broken in my opinion. None of their initial communications are saying things like have been said by the Council 20 guys such as: "When RA came to visit and we talked about contract improvements, he clearly had his game face on". DALPA should be saying: ...and given this fact - it is time for everyone to start saving up a war chest of at least 6 months of living expenses." That's how you begin to speak to your union members when you know you have a management team that is willing to give nothing. But DALPA is not doing that. I believe it's because they agree with management, and they are trying to convince us as well. Our only hope is a serious card drive during Section 6 to force our own union to negotiate like a union...or risk their removal.

Carl

That is your perception. Have more faith in your reps.

#5047

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:41 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here's what you're missing Bar: That was a decade ago when the majority of ALPA members were pilots that flew for the majors, and the regionals were largely not ALPA members. Today, the majority of ALPA members are Regional Pilots; but now ALPA represents both! So how does that manifest itself to today's facts on the ground? By ALPA blatantly NOT defending Delta's Section 1. A section that could be perceived as hurting the interest of another member union. Definition: Conflict of Interest.

That is false. The majority of ALPA pilots are mainline pilots. There are about 43K members in good standing and of that amount the majority are from majors.

Quote:
You find it odd based on decades old history. Based on today's facts, it is the very definition of a conflict of interest.

Sadly, that is true. But even worse is now - where our already weak scope is not even being defended by our union. Why? ALPA's conflict of interest.

Carl

Carl;
You know that there is a process, and they just had a special MEC meeting. I would wait to see what happened there before you start throwing these accusations. The reps decide and the union cannot take action until their consensus is determined.

#5048

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:42 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

Yeah, now if they can get you to admit they all don't come from the ALPA side...

I have long stated that DPA has some good idea, I just do not believe that they are the vehicle to employ those ideas.

#5049

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:44 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

And that's the issue. If the MEC decides that an LEC member's communication attempt is not "correct", then there's no communication. And the offending LEC member is off to re-education camp. OK that last part just sounded funny.

Carl

Not as I see it. They may not like it but they cannot stop it. I think that many of the updates from a few councils prove that.

#5050

acl65pilot , 04-19-2011 04:46 PM

Happy to be here

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy

None of that is a factor if scope recapture consisted mainly of sunset clauses as regional contracts expire. Not really that big of a deal to achieve.

Agreed. Sun-setting these contracts allows for the flying to return to the mainline over time without exposing DAL to its financial obligations under these CPA's.