No matter how many times I hear about JR manning at UAL, I still feel like it's a kick in the junk.

I'm with you brother, if possible, it's starting to feel worse.

This is an old conversation. Ever since 9/11/01 CAL has been understaffed. It's their MO. Greed is in our DNA. There has always been a percent of this pilot group looking out for number one and it's not necessarily who you think it is. I myself don't fly unless I'm well rested. I've used this card a couple of times so far this year and it's works real well. Flying 13 days in a row is dangerous. I say don't do it.... On a side note. CAL will not hire/recall untill they (mgt) squeeze every drop out of this pilot group. Maybe it's time for us to start squeezing.

Slightly off topic, but relevant for all of us UAL folks to understand. CAL reserves can have some/all of their days off moved without their concurrence; Correct? If true, that needs to get fixed.

To me, voluntarily accepting additional work (including answering the phone when you don't have to), while your brothers and sisters are on the street, is no different than crossing a picket line. I think the word SCAB should not be used for this group, but another deragatory term should be coined for those that choose to screw the coworkers.

The junior pilots at CAL are basically working under FAR's. CAL flight ops has prefected the art of maximum productivity. At the same time they protect the kool aid drinkers. Example: I show up for a trip say a red eye turn. Scheduling has to call out two FO's because they are so close to 30 and 7 they must take turns flying/DH. Example: Coming up on a 30 and 7 and you think I'm good. Wrong. You DH to MEX to fly the trip back. Researves get 12 days off at CAL and 8 days are moveable.

So here's the question -- why is anyone working there?

This crap either exceeds your personal limits or it doesn't. Pay, work rules, benefits, etc. either meet your personal minimums or they don't.

Four unmoveable days off each month -- no way I'd take that job, no way I'd stay at that job. Thousands do though, so for all the big talk on here, I don't expect to see any substantive change in the industry. This is proof of what people will take to fly jets.

Not as a personal attack MXDUDE, but did you stand there and smile, and get dressed up, and interview, and act grateful and excited when you signed on to this crap? Yes, you did. Why? All of the information was out there. What makes you any different than the RJ guy? You will do a schedule with 12 off, 8 moveable, deadheads to skirt legality, etc. Then, guess what my company wants? Exactly. They hold CAL and MXDUDE up as an example of what's competitive and what must be done. They want these rules on the UA guys too. Instant 500 furlough - bonus for Jeffie. Bottom feeding is still bottom feeding, even if you are in the bigger pond. You guys need to stand up NOW!

PIPE

8 days are IMMOVABLE. 4 Can be moved.

For the record..This contract on the CAL side has got to be fixed..I am living proof of how bad it is..to answer your questions ...I did smile, I did get dressed up and I did interview at CAL..with no gun to my head..at my interview i was told(and it was true at the time) that we were going to hire 500 or so behind me, we were upgrading to captain in as little as three years! What did they tell you at your UAL interview? I think you are a little off course to say that I am no different than an rj guy..I too was furloughed and very frustrated and upset..the job market was bleak when I was on furlough..could not find a job to save my life, so I do feel your pain. My question to you is..how would you suggest we stand up NOW!?

I'm not a UAL guy - just someone who is sick and tired of "the bar" constantly being lowered.

I have left a major in the past, by choice, based on my analysis of the situation and outlook and started over at another. The reason? Those places did not meet my personal mins for many reasons. Starting over is a bitter pill, but the cure is usually better than the disease. I sleep well at night knowing that I walked - being accountable to yourself and knowing your worth is invaluable.

Look to your UA bros for how to stand up. They have been neutered by their injunction, but the 2000 "Summer of Love" is about the only example of a successful job action at a major since Northwest struck in the mid to late 90's. It is time for action. If you guys continue eating the **** sandwich - that's all that is going to be on the menu for yourselves -- and eventually for the rest of us.

Remember - in this industry a falling tide grounds all ships.

PIPE

BTW - That crap about all of the hiring, upgrade times, etc. has been fed to every new hire at every airline since Orville and Wilbur. (Ask any US Air, TWA, United, CAL, etc. new-hire) I've heard it three times myself - false every time.