Regularguy,

Thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious. When I was hired we had 3 year Captains. Back then I figured that I'd wait 7 or 8 years to upgrade so I could enjoy some decent seniority for (commuter) bidding. Pretty funny how that worked out!

Its a cyclical industry and airlines have come and gone along with idiotic ideas and readily available capital. There's no guarantee of success yet almost always excess hubris coupled with a lack of business acumen. A pilot signs up on someones list and keeps his fingers crossed. Yet, its his fault that his decisions have kept him in the right seat?

In my career there were plenty of airlines which I never applied to due to a particularly putrid stench of one scent or another. Yet, looking back I wish that I had rolled the dice and applied to them when a much younger man. Who knows, I might be a 777 Captain now! In this industry, shiiip happens. But hey, look at all that multi engine turbine time I was able to build! (What a joke)

Here's an ugly fact. When I was a commuter Captain, former Pan Am and Eastern Captains flew as my F/O. I should have quit then.

Have you seen the TA?

Do you know there is no longevity for furloughees? Do you know the scope section is bad? Do you know how our B/C funds will compare? Ect...why freak out when you haven't seen the TA? Also, do you even have a vote?

No one is "freaking out".. but people are reacting (and rightfully so) to the rumors/info that is out there.

A Rep (LAX FO) stated early on some of the points of the TA. Now it seems some of those "rumors" have been confirmed by our own Union Leadership.

My own MEC Chair commented at the last local council meeting that there was a hold up at the MEC's level because "the company has given us a lump sum to divide.. and we can't come up with an acceptable solution" [8 Oct 12]. "We have another meeting scheduled with the UAL MEC this Wed and hope to come to an agreement". "If not, ALPA Policy allows for JCBA Ratification without the sum known (!), or we can go to arbitration to determine how to divide the money"

So, to me.. reading between the lines.. Full Retro is no longer the goal of this Union.
That being said, we should all have a lump sum in our mind. There is nothing wrong about talking about that~

I agree that you have to look at the whole JCBA. But what if the B/C fund is 25% but Scope is sold out.. pay is less than Delta by a year.. is that acceptable?!

I have my minimums for every section of the JCBA. Delta minus 1 year doesn't cut it. Delta Scope doesn't cut it. $400 million divided by the two sides doesn't cut it.

Me posting on these message boards just lets the Union (and the company) know where I stand. [And since I identify myself, they know who I am]. It also (hopefully) raises discussions among other pilots and makes them "think" about minimums among all the sections.

Motch

I haven't "seen" the TA. (People I know have). Talk to me after tomorrow....
YES
YES (IMHO)
NO (anything LESS than what UAL was gettin' is bad)
etc. (?) (for me, SCOPE and AT LEAST "industry standard" would make me "think")
"Freak out"? NO... just ****ed from what I've been told.
And, YES...

Our MEC Chairman also points out how counterproductive it is to discredit a TA and hard work that hasnt been released in final product. I think the $400 MIL is just for the CAL side, yes that's right LAX LEC shot from the hip was not accurate according to our MEC Chairman as well.
I hope everyone with a vote uses thought before voting.

Well ... You must be a connected guy! I guess it comes out tomorrow as I believe you are predicting...I hope you're wrong but that's why we should keep our resumes updated. With the ability to exercise self help apparently not a realistic option anymore the uphill climb keeps getting steeper.

Chris..
when you say "our", I take it that you are a Continental Pilot.
If so, I will say this.

My (our) MEC Chair told me (us) that he would not run for National Office, that he was here for the Continental Pilots and our (J)CBA.
That was during the last (not latest) ALPA National BOD Meeting.
Then he ran for office.

That's were he lost me.

Since then, he has not shown true leadership and (in my opinion) he demonstrated his true character with the Paris/Crew Rest seat issue a while back.

I will also state that I personally asked him how much he flies/flew this year. I was not happy with his answer and told him that if he was out there flying at least once a month, he would know what the line pilots are going through. But I digress.

We will see what the (Final) JCBA has in it and how close the LAX Rep was to being right. Me, I'm taking his "rumor" with a grain of salt.
I will read the whole document.. but since I will be starting with Definitions/Scope, I will probably vote accordingly after that.
I will then add to my comments on the rest of the TA afterwards.

That being said, after the last local council meeting.. I feel that my Reps no longer represent my best interests. Hate to type that, but it's how I feel. They were asked and answered my question concerning Resolution 1010-93R. They would not let us see it against the wishes of the NMB. At that point, they no longer work for me but work for the NMB.. who in turns works for the Government.

Tomorrow's the 19th. We are suppose to hear that the AIP's are done and the TA is given to the MEC's. We will see.

Motch

Motch

PS> Ironically, watching a Delta commercial on TV right now. We are so screwed~

Still far less than Full Retro Pay for the last 4 years.


I used to say it to the Company, now I'm saying it to the union:

FUPM!!!!!

I like your optimism but I think you are going to be disappointed just as much as the rest of us will.

Then explain to me why our MEC Chair would say that we had to have an agreement with the UAL MEC on how to divide the money?

If (and it should be) the $400 million was only for the Continental Pilots [and obviously, there needs to be a sum for the United pilots too], then dividing the money up would be an internal CAL ALPA Issue.
JP said the opposite.

You seem to be giving JP alot of 'blind faith'.. those days are gone, for me~
'Trust.. but verify'
Motch