fenix1

What has prevented establishment of a REGIONAL-ONLY union? Such union may have to get nearly all regionals airlines (pilots) on-board to maximize effectiveness (except those regionals owned by legacy/major carriers...), but it's very clear & intuitive that ALPA doesn't or can't effectively represent their regional pilots and, in fact, ALPA must advocate against regional pilots to take care of those they really exist to support (legacy/major pilots). I'm not intending to call ALPA 'the devil' - just pointing out that it's odd they represent any regionals at all - and I'm also trying to understand why a regional-only union has never existed (seems like such an entity could wield A LOT of stroke going forward). Thoughts??

Bravix

ALPA doesn't represent the airline. The airline's MEC represents them. ALPA national doesn't have any ability to force the MEC to take one stance or another. Their only direct way of affecting regionals is through lobbying. ALPA just collects dues and provides resources for the MEC to make use of. That's a pretty basic description, a bit more to it than this of course...

That said, what benefit would a regional union provide? Okay, you say there's a conflict of interest. But national doesn't control how your MEC votes or acts. That's all internal, your coworkers making decisions.

fenix1

Understood - ALPA handles strategic issues/lobbying while individual airlines’ MEC’s handle contract negotiations/airline-specific matters. But the ties between ALPA & legacy/major MEC’s are close and they’re both focused on the same thing: taking care of legacy/major pilots, which sometimes comes at the expense of regional pilots’ interests. The value in carving out the regionals from ALPA & creating a regional-only union would be to establish true representation for the interests of regional airline pilots at the strategic level just like ALPA does already for legacy/major pilots. Or are regional pilots’ interests best served in the long run through ALPA after all? (ie, do regional pilots interests get advanced more through ALPA dues - because of ALPA’s established ability to influence & greater resources - than they would through a less-influential, regional-only union?). What benefits regional pilots’ more - representation from a union with deep pockets who can’t do much for them today (conflict of interest) or representation from a less powerful union that exists solely to represent regional pilots’ interests?

I don’t know what structure it would take, but unifying the interests of regional pilots should be powerful. Legacies & Alaska obviously want to do as much flying as possible on the cheap via regionals. Wouldn’t this provide a place of value for a regional-only union and wouldn’t a regional-only platform be well-equipped to promote meaningful change to benefit regional airline pilots? Or would a regional-only union really not have any meaningful influence & regional MEC’s are the only hope (airline-by-airline)?

rickair7777

Nobody holds it against you for wanting a SLI, not at all, it's only common sense.

But the OO pilots did not choose to buy XJT, or have any say in that at all. It's only common sense for them to prefer not to do an SLI was a more senior group. They don't really have a moral imperative to rescue you by giving you their seniority.

The point being they need to consider the ramifications of certifying alpa specifically (vice teamsters, or in-house). And it doesn't require telepathy to see that XJT people who constantly come to the OO forum and advocate alpa have a conflict of interest.

rickair7777

National *should* at least encourage discussion about the betterment of the industry, if not actually coordinate action towards that end. By "indusry" I mean contract feed, not airlines.

The problem is there are two different industries (airlines and contract feed), who have different business models, and separate labor groups... with competing interests. But since the bulk of national's revenue comes from airlines, not contract feeders, they have an incentive to perpetuate status quo.

Just so there's no confusion... airline pilots benefit from low wages at contract feeders. More money for them from the overall pot, plus there are many spoke destinations where the economics would not support narrowbodies (or RJ's flown at mainline wages). That feed is important to fill mainline aircraft. You just don't want too much of it, hence scope.

DirkDiggler

As I've stated many times, go teamsters or start you own. Nobody at XJT, and I mean nobody, except maybe a few ASA people would want to be merged with SkyWest. I personally would rather be flipping burgers or unemployed than have to lick management's cajones. There would be a huge culture clash. XJT is very much a rebellious pilot group in many ways, anti-hat, anti-company, especially when the morale gets low. With the few SkyWest guys I've spoken with I can tell it is vastly different over there.

Bravix

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I don't know enough about the finances of running a union to know which way would be more effective. Certainly need to consider economies of scale, you get a lot of bang for your buck through ALPA since they have so many people under their banner. An all regional would face the difficulty of needing to pull other regional carriers away from ALPA (and teamsters), which would be quite the task.

Then the funding for the new union, which would be pricey. Then growing pains. Then have to compete against ALPA on the national lobbying level...which would be difficult. ALPA would lose some dues if all regionals went to their own union, but major pilots still make wayyyyy more, so ALPA would have a considerably higher bankroll.

I'd guess its more cost effective to go through ALPA, but I don't know.

bamike

Anti-hat LOL . The real question is would you rather flip burgers than wear the hat?

gojo

It really doesn’t matter to me whether or not you all get a union. What gets me is the the reasons for not wanting one. Or the lack of sensible ones rather. I don’t know what the hype is that corporate feeds you all? But it seems not many question it and do their own research. It’s almost like programmed to think BAD with just the mention of the word. Kinda like the name Voldemort on Harry Potter. I’m pretty sure that just one item of improvement, and I’m thinking block or better would more than make up for that cursed 1.9% dues. But whatever floats your boat. It’s your bank account

tomgoodman

Yeah, who doesn’t like hats?