Not anymore as well. Lots of guys and gals have their apps in last month we lost more than usual, maybe because of the whole AIP thing but I doubt it.

If your west coast then SKW is an obvious choice but to sit here and say to go to a regional that doesn’t offer guaranteed movement is absurd. Very seldom are there guarantees in this industry pilot shortage or not. There’s nothing stopping me from the apps I already have in at all majors. We have rapid upgrades (right at 950 hours), short captain reserve times just like you all do.

My hope is the Endeavor guys start to get some movement, it’s getting pretty stagnated over there from what I hear.


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It's true upgrade times are short there, aren't they even forcing upgrades? As for the flow at envoy doesn't it decrease after the protected pilots flow? Something like the lesser of 25/month or some formula based on total number of pilots? It is guaranteed movement which is good, but it's slowing down it seems.

I know envoy gets a lot of cadets from places like atp, cti, cae, who go there in lieu of getting a college degree so they're pretty much stuck at envoy until the flow comes. They need more people like you who are applying elsewhere.

 

The only people who can bid down to the minimum are the top 3-5% most senior in each base. And I'm absolutely not joking or exaggerating. For the very vast majority of people you will very regularly get the bare minimum of 11 days off enough. Count your blessings if you get 12. The way it works is the bidding software demands you bid 90 hours of credit because despite what the delusional liars in management say the airline is severely understaffed. (they emailed every pilot begging to put ourselves on reserve this weekend on our precious few days off.) Unless you're in the top 20% of seniority you can count on working 4 day trips that credit 18.5 hours on average. 18.5 X 4 = 74 hours. To make up the rougly 15 hour difference you'll likely be forced to fly a couple of standups or an extra 3 day. 4 days X 4 trips =16 + a 3 day = 19 days. 30-19= your 11 days off. Throw in commuting. If you aren't at the very least 50% or more senior in most bases you WILL be paying out of your own pocket for a crash pad or hotel for an ADDITIONAL night/ day away from home. Let's say 1 extra day on the road commuting either to or from work for each of those 4 day trips. That's 11-4. That's 7 days at home a month. It's completely unsustainable and many people truly are being worked to death. Welcome to the regionals I suppose. Skywest used to be different/better but not anymore. Livin' the dream!

 

At 45 percent seniority, I was able to get 14-16 days off consistently, with 4 day trips crediting 22-24 hours. I looked at the bid transparency and the others around me were not having quite the same success. It really takes having an understanding of PBS and the different properties. At 45%, those around me were getting close to 12-14 days off and the same amount of credit.

 

CRJ or 175? What base? Because there's no way in hell you were CRJ in DTW/ORD/ATL/MSP getting those kind of numbers. SLC CRJ probably. Or any 175 base. But not out in SkyEast.

 

I was CRJ ORD. Like I said, my results weren’t typical.

 

took me bidding under 20% before i got something that resembled this outside october/april. DL CRJ east coast bases are mostly 18.5-21 hour 4 day trips. my highest PBS floor( min credit pbs would solve at) was 96 hrs. average is over 90

 

I have been here for a few years now, and I have seen up and down with the amount of work and days off. Things are pretty heavy right now, but I have been making really good money, so I am not complaining too much.

 

You pay a price for flow.

Is it worth paying the price (lower regional pay and slower upgrades) to have a backup in case you never get hired OTS? Maybe, but it's kind of like insurance, it feels like a waste if you never need it.

If you know you really need the flow (no degree, criminal record, training problems, etc) then flow is priceless and affords an opportunity you would simply not have otherwise.

 

This^^^. But therein lies the problem. Perhaps it really DOESN’T matter. Perhaps none of that stuff, DUIs, criminal record, training failures, or lack of college degree is important at all. Maybe it isn’t. Maybe there is no correlation between any of that stuff and being a good airline pilot.

But unless you can convince THE MAJOR HR PEOPLE of that, as soon as they realize that the people flowing to them are disproportionately the people THEY consider the dregs of the applicant pool, what will happen is predictable. They will be looking for ways out of that flow agreement or, at a minimum, ways to slow down the flow so they can hire as many “superior” OTS hires as possible or at least delay the movement of the “flowees” to mainline as long as possible to limit the pilot years that they will be there.

And they’ve got the big lawyers. Don’t forget that 20 years ago United took a case all the way to the Supreme Court (Sutton vs UAL) and won, because UAL didn’t want to hire people based simply on FAA standards. Congress actually had to rewrite the Americans with Disability Act to overcome that decision.

I can picture one story linked to the Drudge Report from the National Enquirer alleging some major airline got all the drunks, criminals, and poor pilots. Bet it wouldn’t be a week before their legal department was moving heaven and earth to renege on their flow agreement.