I’m sure most of you have heard the overwhelmingly unpopular news that 1/3 of CRJ forced upgrades will be from the ERJ FO pool. Not only will a lot of people will see their QOL tank because they will have to commute, but my biggest concern is the massive lack of experience that will be present in the flight deck. Almost all FOs have under a year and 1000 hours 121 experience due to forced upgrades, combine that with a captain with very little experience as a captain, AND next to no experience in that particular jet.



Has this ever been done in the history of the airline industry? Forced upgrade at FAA legal minimums AND a new type of aircraft. Let alone an aircraft with a higher workload and more maintenance issues. I know that it can be done by some pilots, but I’m afraid that this will be the primary ingredient for the next 121 fatal incident. Best case scenario there are a bunch of unhappy pilots and some close calls, worst case scenario people get hurt. What are your thoughts?

 

AA used to have mandatory forced upgrade as soon as a tiny handful of people junior to you upgraded. I'm pretty sure you went to the junior jet, not necessarily the one you were one.

I've upgraded onto a type I've never flown, certainly a sporting evolution but not a catastrophe for a motivated professional pilot.

I do see the issue with low time all around and perfect storm, so hopefully OO really keeps the screws tight on the standards. They're probably in a position where they can sacrifice a few slacker FO's in the interest of generating badly-needed CA's.

In the grand scheme the CRJ is a pretty easy plane to learn and fly, if higher workload on vertical managment (I never flew the ERJ, but mainline types work the same way).

I guess if OO wanted to be a little extra careful, they could limit the invol upgrades to own type. Or give you the option at least. That would make sense.

 

Unfortunately you can't teach experience

 

It was a wild announcement for sure, and as one of the probably affected OO ERJ FOs, personally I am slightly upset but I would guess I am towards the unbothered end of the spectrum on that.

Forced upgrades aren't new at Skywest, at least they were into the same type before now. It makes sense business-wise, they have a basically unlimited supply of FO candidates and with the rest of the industry slowed down on hiring finally, the company can finally say "go where WE need you to or get out." They'll have numerous classes of new FOs to fill the void of people that quit or fail or otherwise. It will be interesting to see the split of people who choose which action. They're not forcing us to bid for CRJ slots, they're saying that to qulify for CRO pay at 750 hours we must open ourselves up to the possibility, though we can bid for ERJ upgrade slots before CRJ spots to get it. It will be interesting to see how many people. if any, refuse to put "ANY" in their bid to avoid the CRJ and the CRO pay, but still get forced to anyway.

I think alot of the fuss is being misinterpreted as people not wanting to get forced from the nice shiny jungle jet into the Deuce; although for some people that may play into it i think the larger gripe is the effects it will have on QOL. I doubt if the company cares that much but my guess is a small part of this might even be to cull the numbers of the few that will be simply unable to handle the aircraft transition, though I believe if a person cannot be trained to fly a CRJ with 1000 hours of 121 time already they probably shouldn't be an airline pilot at this point. But mainly QOL, especially for BOI, SEA,SAN, PDX and now AUS as they are ERJ only bases.

Personally, I'm going to stay put for now. I have about 5 months before I'll put my upgrade bid in, see how it starts playing out. I think the forced transitions upgrades are starting as early as next month, as I heard people had a confirmed class date but no location or fleet type yet. I'll certainly try to stay base/ type before my ANY bid, but if i get forced to switch and kicked out of my base I'll consider finishing the training, collecting CRO pay and taking a DEC sign on bonus at another carrier immediately after.

I'f I'm going to be forced to commute and switch planes to go back to the bottom of a seniority list, I might as well collect a bonus and go to a wholly owned with a union and a better chance of moving onto a major of my choice sooner.

 

In addition to the safety concerns, this can't be good for some pilots' careers either. I'd imagine there will be a notable amount of training failures, which will impact the ability of some to move on.

 

The "any" in your bid has nothing to do with the fleet type. It's strictly for base preference, and inclusion in the CRO bonus. (See TG's "Q&A from last week). I suppose that if you only bid for ERJ bases and bypass the CRO, that's kinda the same thing, but still no guarantee that you won't get whatever the company need is at the time. They are awarding upgrades as soon as 750hrs with a bid in, or at 950hrs with no bid in. And if you get the FU at 950, you have no say in what youre gonna get.

 

I was in the second forced upgrade class that OO ever held, back in 2022. At the time, I utterly hated the idea. I went from being the #2 FO in base, with whatever schedule I felt like flying...to a mid-level CA line that quickly degraded into endless reserve as West Coast CRJ flying was drawn down.

In retrospect, though, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'd been an FO for far too long. I enjoyed being a CA, and leveraged that experience to move on to UAL, where I am now. If I hadn't been forced to upgrade, I'd probably still be warming the right seat of a CRJ. So I'm glad it happened.

My only advice to the folks currently getting forced into upgrading...do the best you can to turn a negative into a positive. With the significant hiring slowdown at mainline, 121 TPIC experience is pretty much going to be a requirement from here on out. Get that fourth stripe, enjoy building that left seat time, and get the heck out as soon as you can. You'll be glad you did.

 

Awesome story. Tons of people did what you did. It gave them a new lease on life. And for everyone barking at “switching” aircraft. Thats part of being a pilot. Enjoy learning a new plane!! Take the challenge. It makes you a better pilot!! Or we would all be right seat 172 drivers…

 

Excellent story. Things worked out well, despite initial negatives.

 

Yup! Almost everyone in my upgrade class is no longer at OO. It gave us the kick in the pants that we kinda needed.

As for upgrading into a different airplane, no question that the mighty RJ is a bit more demanding in terms of systems knowledge and some procedures than the 175, for example the CA originating flows and FFOD procedures for the Deuce, which are quite lengthy. My reco here would be to get hold of the training materials early and show up to training with at least a basic understanding of the flows and systems. When I got the upgrade notice, I would show up early to every flight and spend a few minutes in the left seat teaching myself the CA flows from the left seat. My CAs were only too happy to help me learn that stuff quickly.

Also, for anyone with their heart set on a mainline career... If you think the mighty Canadian Reset Jet is archaic, just wait till you get to Guppy training. The RJ is a modern technological marvel compared to the Guppy. The RJ has a simpler and more logical approach to systems design, and the lack of an EICAS in the 73 leads to some head -scratching moments during non-normal procedures in which systems knowledge is essential. So for a 175 driver, upgrading into the less-technologically-advanced CRJ will provide a solid precursor to eventually moving into the dinosaur from Renton...