Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER

Exactly. It’s not the equivalent of a transcon. For example, a decompression at your ETP and now you have to fly the next 2.5 hours at 10,000’.



Don’t forget to factor in APU burn as well because on the 737 that needs to be run CONTINOUSLY for ETOPS as a third source of electrical power being that we don’t have a RAT.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

Our prior etops training was a sad embarrassment. I am honestly amazed the feds bought off on it. The clowns on the radio that you mention were a victim of that approach to training.
We now have etops bid groups and I suspect the training will be a lot more robust and that our POI is not going to let that happen again.

Originally Posted by tacoma1946

You sound like you tried to get hired by SWA and did not make it. Maybe next time.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

Our prior etops training was a sad embarrassment. I am honestly amazed the feds bought off on it. The clowns on the radio that you mention were a victim of that approach to training.
We now have etops bid groups and I suspect the training will be a lot more robust and that our POI is not going to let that happen again.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

Dude, I am not an Air Force fighter guy. Most of my prior experience is flying a 707. I have flown over the water a lot further than Hawaii in a prior job. I understand the associated risks and fuel planning as I have done it many many times only I was the one doing the preparation and fuel planning, not dispatch.
My point was to illustrate that we aren’t going to Singapore. We are going less distance than it takes to cross the United States. The 737 does it on multiple airlines and they somehow manage to make money. I am surprised that this comes to a shock to many people who seem to think that SWA has just announced Hawaii because there was no money in it on our 175 seat 800's. We haven’t done it yet because we are too cheap to pay the associated up front costs for training and equipment.
That was my only point. Sheesh.

Originally Posted by stanky

I'm happy to hear that SW is getting ETOPs and going to Hawaii. I think it will be a great thing for the pilots there. I'm curious though, you guys had your class II pulled after just a few weeks, and now you can't even take the shortcuts (legally) to the Caribbean.

Are you gonna reign in the cowboys, or lose ETOPs and get embarrassed with the Hawaii thing.

I wish you the best, and I hope your ETOPs training fixes that issue, but I'll never forget hearing SW on NY AIRINC requesting direct to San Juan. The operator went through multiple long explanations as to why that wasn't possible, but the pilots didn't seem to comprehend what he was saying. Not long after, I stopped hearing them out there.

They also couldn't seem to do a proper position report. "SW 360 checking in at 330" was not what the operator was looking for. Then it was a question and answer session for 5 minutes to fill in the position report.

I just hope ETOPs is taken a little more seriously. Its kind of a big deal to do it right. 2 or 3 hours off shore is a long way from help when something goes wrong.

Originally Posted by sherpster

Always the SWA pilot fallback. Too funny.

Originally Posted by stanky

That's all that I was saying. I sincerely hope you're right.

To the tool who suggested that I was bitter because I didn't get hired there. Wrong dude. It might surprise you, but I never wanted to work there, consequently I never applied. I flew the 737 when I first went to United almost 20 years ago and couldn't imagine spending an entire career in it.

Nice arrogance though.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

Dude, I am not an Air Force fighter guy. Most of my prior experience is flying a 707. I have flown over the water a lot further than Hawaii in a prior job. I understand the associated risks and fuel planning as I have done it many many times only I was the one doing the preparation and fuel planning, not dispatch.
My point was to illustrate that we aren’t going to Singapore. We are going less distance than it takes to cross the United States. The 737 does it on multiple airlines and they somehow manage to make money. I am surprised that this comes to a shock to many people who seem to think that SWA has just announced Hawaii because there was no money in it on our 175 seat 800's. We haven’t done it yet because we are too cheap to pay the associated up front costs for training and equipment.
That was my only point. Sheesh.

Originally Posted by Sluggo_63

Okay, you flew white 707s, I flew grey ones. So, we've both been trans-oceanic in 4-engine jets. I've also flown 3-holers (MD-11) and twins (777). I'll tell you there is a lot more stuff going on in flying a two-engine plane long distances over the water than there is with a 4-engine military plane. Obviously, other airlines do it, but it sure isn't the same as BWI-LAX.