Originally Posted by TexasBigJet

Hi Ya'll,



I hate resurrecting this thread, but having spent the better part of a month doing my research, talking to folks I know, and crunching numbers, I want to run some stuff by the folks on this forum. Here's a pros and cons list I made: Pros:



AA:



- Widebody international opportunities

- Seniority movement. 76 FO in 2 years/77 or 78 FO in 4 years. DFW NB CA in 5 years (maybe less). WB CA in 18 years.



- QOL better if able to bid Reserve (able to sit at home for long stretches without being called?)



SWA:



- Solid Company, great brand and customer service; usually a top 3 ranked airline



- Better able to withstand an economic slowdown



- Growing Company



- More opportunity for premium and open time (when the MAX returns?)



- Premium for later land time and holidays



- Better profit sharing



- Better variety of quality domiciles

- Vacation



Cons:



AA:



- Terrible management; by far the worst in the industry



- Ranked worst airline (3 out of 5 years)



- Not in a good position to withstand an economic slowdown



- Contract is worst in the industry (will it get better?)



- Profit Sharing is a joke



SWA:



- 737 for entire career (maybe)



- Limited international



- Work more; more block, more legs?



- 10 year upgrade to Dallas CA



- Reserve rules? (no LC, and not able to “sit” for long stretches of time without getting called)



- Future commutability from Austin potentially more difficult due to AM/PM construct.



I ran a career- earnings spreadsheet using the current payrates for both companies, and the numbers are astoundingly close (I wish I could somehow post a copy of it on here). I assumed a 2% profit sharing at AA and a 16% Direct Contribution. For SWA I assumed a 10% profit sharing, and 15% direct contribution. I did not include per diem as I usually use it anyways, and its a wash for both companies. I ran it assuming a 5 yr NB CA upgrade, and 18 yr WB CA upgrade at AA (those are the current timelines for someone hired today, and being based out of DFW). I did not use the 2 year 76 FO upgrade at AA because those are going away, and I did not use WB FO in this exercise, because given the opportunity, in order to maximize earnings, someone would choose NB CA at that decision point (QOL consideration aside). I assumed a 10 yr CA upgrade at SWA for someone being based out of Dallas. I also ran it using 3 different credit assumptions 1) SC Guarantee of 76 for AA and 87 TFP for SWA 2) 15-day Average of 80 hours for AA and 100 TFP for SWA 3) High of 100 for AA and 140 for SWA. In using the average comparison, I tried to make an "apples-to-apples" comparison. In talking to folks, it seems that the avg AA guy will get about 80 hours for 15 days of work, while a SWA guy will get about 90 TFP for 12 days of work. Add in another 3 day trip, and that brings the SWA pilot up to 100 TFP on the conservative side.

Here's the breakdown:



1) For guarantee and the above assumptions, over a 30-year career an AA pilot will gross at $9,194,492.00, while a SWA pilot will gross at $8,315,644.73 in career earnings. That is a difference of $878,847.00 favoring the AA pilot.



2) For an average 15-day work month (using 80 hours for AA and 100 TFP for SWA), over a 30-year career an AA pilot will gross at $9,678,413, while a SWA pilot will gross at $9,558,212.33 in career earnings. That is a difference of $120,200.00 favoring the AA pilot.



3) For hustling, (using 100 hours for AA and 140TFP for SWA), over a 30-year career an AA pilot will gross at $12,098,016.00, while a SWA pilot will gross at $13,381,497.3 in career earnings. That is a difference of $1,283,481.00 favoring the SWA pilot.



I was really surprised at how close the numbers were, but I think the disparity can explained in that the majority of a pilot's career at AA will be spent in a NB, whereas widebody CA upgrade is still at the 18 year mark. Although SWA's hourly rate is lower, a "days gone per pay" is higher due to SWA's efficiency. Once an AA pilot hits WB CA, there is a difference of $46,732.55 per year favoring the AA pilot (using the average scenario).



Also, I don't know if anyone can explain SWA's vacation policy, but it seems the SWA folks get a lot more vacation than the AA folks. I don't know if I'm missing anything, but it seems that in almost every respect, SWA is better. Now, if only I can convince myself to get over the want and perceived "glamour" or widebody and long haul international flying, I think I'd be all in at SWA. I'm still really on the fence, but I hope this thread helps folks considering these two companies look at some comparison factors. Thanks!

Originally Posted by GHOST

Southwest is a great company, and I have plenty of acquaintances over there. Personally, I would suggest American Airlines. I took an upgrade at the 5 year mark, and prior to that I was flying the 767 to plenty of great destinations in Europe. I’m getting plenty of time off and don’t work too hard, not to mention the money is great as well. Based off of scheduled attrition, those hired in my class should see wide body captain in 8 more years. Good luck in your decision.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

That’s huge. Quickest upgrade at WN - and it’s a moving target with the Max - is around 10 years. And that’s ten years to be the plug at the least desirable domicile.

Originally Posted by dawgdriver

You'll know if you made the right choice on the day you retire. Best of luck.

Originally Posted by GHOST

Southwest is a great company, and I have plenty of acquaintances over there. Personally, I would suggest American Airlines. I took an upgrade at the 5 year mark, and prior to that I was flying the 767 to plenty of great destinations in Europe. I’m getting plenty of time off and don’t work too hard, not to mention the money is great as well. Based off of scheduled attrition, those hired in my class should see wide body captain in 8 more years. Good luck in your decision.