Worth it to move on?
12-29-2019 | 06:05 PM
#11
Furloughed Again?!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,948
Likes: 109
From: Boeing 737
It’s all an academic exercise until you apply and interview. That gives you the chance to interview THEM as well. Try it and see if you feel like it’s a good fit for you.
I think after an honest to goodness interview you will be able to make a decision you can live with either way.
Unless you are me, in which case you’ll spend your life looking back at past choices and wondering “what if?!”
Don’t be like me.
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I think after an honest to goodness interview you will be able to make a decision you can live with either way.
Unless you are me, in which case you’ll spend your life looking back at past choices and wondering “what if?!”
Don’t be like me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
12-29-2019 | 08:30 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: 737 pilot
WRT the Max, this too shall pass. It is definitely temporary. The problem is, the feds will not say “the max is coming back in x month” because then they are dictating a timeline and we all know that they are mainly concerned with safety (yeah right).
When the max comes back, expect swa to go on a capacity expansion tear. Look at the long lead indicators:
Pilot hiring is spooled up and the schoolhouse has literally knocked the wall down on a 2 year old building to put in more sims.
Denver is doubling in size. This has been announced in the media.
Hawaii is a priority right now and will remain so in the near future.
We are cannibalizing profitable routes to feed the west coast and Hawaii due to lack of aircraft.
I am a glass half empty kind of guy, but when I look at Gary Kelly's strategic plans and the max situation, right now the only thing holding us back is the feds blessing an aircraft program that a large part of the US economy depends on. I think the future is pretty bright at SWA. That said, if I were a 25 year old regional captain, I would be putting my eggs in the United or AA basket. You can’t argue with math.
When the max comes back, expect swa to go on a capacity expansion tear. Look at the long lead indicators:
Pilot hiring is spooled up and the schoolhouse has literally knocked the wall down on a 2 year old building to put in more sims.
Denver is doubling in size. This has been announced in the media.
Hawaii is a priority right now and will remain so in the near future.
We are cannibalizing profitable routes to feed the west coast and Hawaii due to lack of aircraft.
I am a glass half empty kind of guy, but when I look at Gary Kelly's strategic plans and the max situation, right now the only thing holding us back is the feds blessing an aircraft program that a large part of the US economy depends on. I think the future is pretty bright at SWA. That said, if I were a 25 year old regional captain, I would be putting my eggs in the United or AA basket. You can’t argue with math.
12-29-2019 | 08:37 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: 737 pilot
I’m nearly the same age. A couple years senior. Live in base. Won’t commute. Won’t move. So my choices are SWA, UAL, and F9. No interest in F9 and don’t want to start at the bottom of UAL. According to the myseniority site I’ll retire at SWA at #80 so I’m staying put.
IMO you missed the big wave at DL. You’d still have a good career there, but you’re not gonna crack the top 2-3,000. Prob upgrade quicker though if you choose the 717/220. Pays good, good contract, good management. Best of the big 3.
AA’s only real draw is the seniority suck. Their financials are worse than UAL, and DL. Contract is worse. Management is worse. You’ll get senior quick but that’s the only attraction I can see, unless you live in a AA base.
UAL is turning things around. Not the dumpster fire it used to be. Upgrade is around the 3 year mark if you don’t mind SFO or EWR. Contract and pay pretty close to DL. I’d prob go here if I was looking to move on.
Got a few friends at FDX. They love it. I hate AM’s and redeyes. But boxes don’t complain and cargo is pretty stable. Took a hit with Amazon but they’re not going anywhere. Get paid well and have a pension.
Knew a guy who would’ve been #1 at SWA and quit to go to DL. Lived in LA and we didn’t have a base there yet. Was uncertain about the contract (pre-2016) so left for what he thought was better. He still loves it so that’s what matters.
As far as I’m concerned the Max issue is a temporary setback. Contract 2020 could be a long fight....or not. If they’re smart, they’d agree to SWAPA’s rewrite before DL/UA/AA lock in their new CBA’s (which are likely to have big pay/retirement improvements).
In the end it’s nobody’s choice but yours and your family’s. And like Zap said, you don’t have a choice to make if you don’t apply.
IMO you missed the big wave at DL. You’d still have a good career there, but you’re not gonna crack the top 2-3,000. Prob upgrade quicker though if you choose the 717/220. Pays good, good contract, good management. Best of the big 3.
AA’s only real draw is the seniority suck. Their financials are worse than UAL, and DL. Contract is worse. Management is worse. You’ll get senior quick but that’s the only attraction I can see, unless you live in a AA base.
UAL is turning things around. Not the dumpster fire it used to be. Upgrade is around the 3 year mark if you don’t mind SFO or EWR. Contract and pay pretty close to DL. I’d prob go here if I was looking to move on.
Got a few friends at FDX. They love it. I hate AM’s and redeyes. But boxes don’t complain and cargo is pretty stable. Took a hit with Amazon but they’re not going anywhere. Get paid well and have a pension.
Knew a guy who would’ve been #1 at SWA and quit to go to DL. Lived in LA and we didn’t have a base there yet. Was uncertain about the contract (pre-2016) so left for what he thought was better. He still loves it so that’s what matters.
As far as I’m concerned the Max issue is a temporary setback. Contract 2020 could be a long fight....or not. If they’re smart, they’d agree to SWAPA’s rewrite before DL/UA/AA lock in their new CBA’s (which are likely to have big pay/retirement improvements).
In the end it’s nobody’s choice but yours and your family’s. And like Zap said, you don’t have a choice to make if you don’t apply.
I’ll be #25 or so at SWA when I retire, so I’m biased towards staying here. But if we don’t give ourselves a chance to grow, apart from being ALL MAX and Lion Air shuts down a motor due to using cheap/bad oil in one of their MAXs, I’m dusting off my app in a hurry.
12-29-2019 | 09:28 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
I totally understand poopoo because I’m in the same position. I’ve been with SWA for two years and I’ve already made up my mind to move on. And it’s a terrible decision because Southwest was my first choice, but it’s hard to stick around when I have buddies at DAL getting paid more to work less.
After two years with SWA, I just got burned out working 3-4 legs every day and consistently putting in 10+ hour days. I understand all airlines work hard and put in long hours but at Southwest we block more and take on more risk but get paid less to do so.
After two years with SWA, I just got burned out working 3-4 legs every day and consistently putting in 10+ hour days. I understand all airlines work hard and put in long hours but at Southwest we block more and take on more risk but get paid less to do so.
12-29-2019 | 10:06 PM
#15
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 146
Likes: 5
I’m really surprised others feels this way, as do I. I’m making the best of it here and enjoy the people and ability to make money. I took a big pay cut to come here so I can’t afford to go start over again anywhere although that’s a problem I’d have to cross when/if the time came. I did pretty well as a year two FO but boy I had to hustle.
I’m watching things carefully, first of the year will be applying at other carriers, and keeping the resume brushed off just in case. As ZAP said, no decision to make unless given a CJO so I’ll play the game and make choices when I have them to make.
As a final note, I do like it here. It’s not a reflection of anyone here or the storied past. Just a survival mechanism and the hope that we continue to grow, evolve, and prosper...hopefully bringing us in line with our Legacy peers.
I’m watching things carefully, first of the year will be applying at other carriers, and keeping the resume brushed off just in case. As ZAP said, no decision to make unless given a CJO so I’ll play the game and make choices when I have them to make.
As a final note, I do like it here. It’s not a reflection of anyone here or the storied past. Just a survival mechanism and the hope that we continue to grow, evolve, and prosper...hopefully bringing us in line with our Legacy peers.
12-30-2019 | 05:48 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 310
Likes: 13
As a Mid level Captain here, I completely respect all of your perspectives. We all need to do what is best for ourselves and our families (not SWA family). I almost bailed here back in ‘08 for Delta, but unfortunately didn’t apply and was actually talked out of it by friends of mine at the time that were flying there if you can believe that. They asked me if I was “nuts” for even thinking of bailing on a great gig like SWA. At the time, they thought I had it made in the shade and that I would regret it later if I bailed and took the seniority hit. In hindsight, I’ve had a good career here at Trailways. I’m left seat living in base and nearly have the schedule I ultimately want, so I’m going down with the ship at this point. There are days I wonder what if? Good luck to you guys with what ever decision you ultimately make. I know it’s not an easy one.
12-30-2019 | 05:54 AM
#17
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,259
Likes: 240
From: B737CA
Worth it to move on?
The point I’m trying to make is to make up your mind to leave before applying. If you get wishywashy and you interview or get a CJO, you may burn a bridge you didn’t intend to burn. It happened to me.
12-30-2019 | 05:58 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 301
By the time you hit yr 5, the pay finally gets pretty good. One of our biggest oops was not fixing yr 1-4 FO pay. Hoping for 2020 that’s fixed along with a bunch of other stuff.
In 2016 we were the first to get a TA and it had industry leading 737 pay (if I remember right). Literally like 2 weeks later DL got a TA. UAL “me too”’d it. And AA pilots *****ed enough that Parker threw them a raise to shut them up. If we want to fix that for 2020 all it would take would be a “me too” clause as well.....pay equal to DL/UAL Group 2 pay should it exceed ours.
If I was younger and lived in a DL base I’d prob keep my app fresh. Bout the only place I’d go is Fedex....pension, good contract, widebodies out of training and pay parity after 1 year.
I haven’t come close to reaching a breaking point yet so my resume remains covered in dust.
In 2016 we were the first to get a TA and it had industry leading 737 pay (if I remember right). Literally like 2 weeks later DL got a TA. UAL “me too”’d it. And AA pilots *****ed enough that Parker threw them a raise to shut them up. If we want to fix that for 2020 all it would take would be a “me too” clause as well.....pay equal to DL/UAL Group 2 pay should it exceed ours.
If I was younger and lived in a DL base I’d prob keep my app fresh. Bout the only place I’d go is Fedex....pension, good contract, widebodies out of training and pay parity after 1 year.
I haven’t come close to reaching a breaking point yet so my resume remains covered in dust.
12-30-2019 | 06:04 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 301
Sometimes, though, you may think the grass is greener and after the interview decide differently. Also hard to say, “I’m out” and then not get a CJO. Just because DL is hiring 1,200 in 2020 doesn’t mean everyone who interviews walks out with a job. 🤷🏼*♂️ Never heard of anyone here who interviewed elsewhere and got a CJO, decided to stay at WN, and was fired. Heard of a few who left, changed their mind and wanted back, and was told they were SOL though. So I agree you better be 100% before sending that email.
12-30-2019 | 07:30 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
OP, I’m also on year 3. I have over 1400 below me on the list, and almost all of that came in my first two years before the MAX debacle. Also while we don’t have the retirement wave that the legacies have, it does ramp up in a couple years.
My point is that the MAX will be back at some point, and it’s clear the company is looking to expand big time. When I got here there were about 750 planes (with the -300’s still) and about 11? sims. Now there are 18 and soon to be 26 sims. I don’t think they spent all that money on the training center for no reason.
Although growth isn’t as much of a seniority guarantee as retirements, I don’t see seniority progression as a compelling factor, especially for someone a few years in.
Bonus question: our 401k is vested immediately and is yours to leave with, but is the profit sharing? Honest question if anyone knows. I think I remember hearing something about that in training but I’m not sure.
My point is that the MAX will be back at some point, and it’s clear the company is looking to expand big time. When I got here there were about 750 planes (with the -300’s still) and about 11? sims. Now there are 18 and soon to be 26 sims. I don’t think they spent all that money on the training center for no reason.
Although growth isn’t as much of a seniority guarantee as retirements, I don’t see seniority progression as a compelling factor, especially for someone a few years in.
Bonus question: our 401k is vested immediately and is yours to leave with, but is the profit sharing? Honest question if anyone knows. I think I remember hearing something about that in training but I’m not sure.
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