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Old 09-04-2011 | 10:02 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by newKnow
But Oscar,

Aren't you guys telling them that they aren't part of the family and that you don't really care about them if they don't do as you want? It seems as though most SWA guys on here would have no problem with management selling off AT in pieces, putting thousands of people on the street. But, you want them to take care of the place when they get there?

That's probably a hard pill to swallow.
Agreed. Not how I envisioned this to go down.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 10:07 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by Columbia
Did it occur to you that he was telling you what you wanted to hear?
And now that costs are rising and unique fuel hedges gone, you better believe he cares what competitive costs are. He's an accountant and as such doesn't operate in a vacuum.
At the time that I had him on my jumpseat there were rumblings (from pilots) that a big pay increase we were due was too much. When I asked him about that he said "No, we have budgeted for that increase and we will not ask for a give back." Call me stupid, but if he is what you describe than surely he would entertain any discussion that includes saving money.

The Oscar
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Old 09-04-2011 | 11:09 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
I keep hearing this argument over and over about "well we were industry leading." It isn't about what you used to make, it is about what you can sustain. Raise your own bar and if you want to say you are doing it for everyone....go for it. After having GK on my jumpseat a few years back I can tell you that he doesn't care what the other airlines compensation is. He cares about what level of compensation he can provide and sustain for his pilot group.

The Oscar

P. S. I used to have a porsche and then I got married. It is kind of like Chapter 11 BK.

If GK does not care about SWA costs relative to the competition then the future at SWA is a bit clouded at best. The difference in cost structure between SWA and the legacy airlines is what pushed SWA to make a major change in corporate strategy. When SW enjoyed a large cost advantage over the competition it could order aircraft and expand at will. They could go into any market and run the competition out. This allowed SW to maintain a 10 percent yearly growth rate. This kept the employees happy and kept employee costs low with a constant flow of new employees at the bottom of the pay charts.
SWA made a decision with their lottery win on fuel hedges to drive at least one and hopefully two major airlines out of business. With 20 percent of the domestic market they could dictate yields and did exactly that. They were able to prevent the other airlines from increasing yield to match the increase in fuel prices. It was a bold gamble on the part of SW. It came within a matter of months of being a complete success. The only thing that saved the legacy airline industry was the collapse in fuel price from 140 a barrel to 40 a barrel almost overnight. Without that collapse the domestic US airline industry would be vastly different today.
The result however was that SW in effect helped management at the legacy airlines make huge adjustments in cost structure. SW no longer had a dramatic cost advantage. The result has been stagnation at SW and increasing labor costs. In the end management made a huge philosophical shift to grow via purchase or mergers. No matter how you work out a merger it never makes the employees happy. When you go from 10 percent a year internal growth to a merger strategy its a bitter pill to swallow. Especially for a group used to quick advancement. Mergers mean little or no advancement.
That is however not Airtrans fault. Its a result of the cost structure at SW relative to its competition. I suspect that within the next 5 years there will be at least one more merger at SW. SWAPA needs to get used to this and realize that arbitration is not a huge evil. SWAPA has many compelling arguments they can make before the arbitrator and I suspect if it goes that route will do quite well in arbitration. The strategy of simply trying to strong arm a list will in the end turn out to be a poor long term choice.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 11:56 AM
  #194  
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this post^^^is why i like APC !!! a cogent, well thought out posting with zero flame.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 12:07 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
If GK That is however not Airtrans fault. Its a result of the cost structure at SW relative to its competition. I suspect that within the next 5 years there will be at least one more merger at SW. SWAPA needs to get used to this and realize that arbitration is not a huge evil. SWAPA has many compelling arguments they can make before the arbitrator and I suspect if it goes that route will do quite well in arbitration. The strategy of simply trying to strong arm a list will in the end turn out to be a poor long term choice.
Yes it is a very well thought out argument. However, the misleading thing about this is it isn't SWAPA that needs to get used to anything. SWAPA was ready to go to arbitration. It is SWA that will not, nor will they ever. SWA is managed by people who will never allow another party to hold the tiller. The will be in control at all times and will never allow ALPA, SWAPA or any other party, person etc. get their nose under the tent. We have experienced it, we live it day to day, but when we tell others what we have learned we get labeled as fear mongerers.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 12:25 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Bake
Yes it is a very well thought out argument. However, the misleading thing about this is it isn't SWAPA that needs to get used to anything. SWAPA was ready to go to arbitration. It is SWA that will not, nor will they ever. SWA is managed by people who will never allow another party to hold the tiller. The will be in control at all times and will never allow ALPA, SWAPA or any other party, person etc. get their nose under the tent. We have experienced it, we live it day to day, but when we tell others what we have learned we get labeled as fear mongerers.
And if GK does what is being intimated here, he has already lost that control. HE has poisoned the well.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 12:50 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Bake
SWAPA was ready to go to arbitration. It is SWA that will not, nor will they ever. SWA is managed by people who will never allow another party to hold the tiller.
That doesn't seem true.
Didn't SWA sign a Transition Agreement that included arbitration?
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Old 09-04-2011 | 01:14 PM
  #198  
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Every airline merger is the same opera with new names for the protagonist and antagonist.

After every civil war, pilots lose even more in the long term.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 01:44 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by Check Essential
That doesn't seem true.
Didn't SWA sign a Transition Agreement that included arbitration?

They did and will go to arbitration if necessary. And it will be like the pope going to jeddah. Not going to have much of an effect.
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Old 09-04-2011 | 02:00 PM
  #200  
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Looks like the SWA guys aren't much different from their DFW headquartered brethren when it comes to merging seniority lists.
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