Airtran/Southwest AIP in a nutshell
08-31-2011, 11:20 AM
#91
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: MD88 A
Posts: 51
CE,
Actually I don't think I included any threats in my post. The reality of what is being discussed on our Forum is that many who were willing to compromise are now becoming militant. It is just the reality of the situation, not a threat. I guess it all depends on which side you are on whether it is perceived as a threat.
The sense of entitlement cuts both ways my friend. All the benefits with no sacrifice. Count me (almost) out. If this is to be decided by an arbitrator then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, but I don't speak for all.
The Oscar
Actually I don't think I included any threats in my post. The reality of what is being discussed on our Forum is that many who were willing to compromise are now becoming militant. It is just the reality of the situation, not a threat. I guess it all depends on which side you are on whether it is perceived as a threat.
The sense of entitlement cuts both ways my friend. All the benefits with no sacrifice. Count me (almost) out. If this is to be decided by an arbitrator then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, but I don't speak for all.
The Oscar
Just because other groups feel differently does not imply sinister agendas.
08-31-2011, 01:10 PM
#92
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: DC9 CA
Posts: 99
Boeing7xx, I applied a loooong time ago. I got a postcard that said something I've long ago forgotten. Back then you were busy hiring my green card FOs with no Capt time. Maybe they'll treat me well when I'm bounced to the rt seat.
SW hiring standards are not my business. Above my pay grade.
Good luck to us all. We're gonna need it.
08-31-2011, 01:42 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Could it be they, ATI pilots, just want a fair SLI and ALPA is just doing their job representing them. I don't think they turned your offer down out of disrespect, they just did not see it as fair.
Just because other groups feel differently does not imply sinister agendas.
Just because other groups feel differently does not imply sinister agendas.
Interesting that you should use that last statement in this discussion. I certainly would be willing to agree if it wasn't for the disparaging remarks about the alleged parentage of the SWA pilots by some. The rhetoric (from both sides) has been down right nasty. Including allegations that the SWAPA folks got the AT NC folks drunk and took advantage of them. Of course that is why they brought the AIP to the MEC.
So did the ALPA national president visit a meeting by the AT MEC recently?
The Oscar (conspiracy theorist)
08-31-2011, 01:50 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
I just got to the hotel so I am reading the thread back to front.
Boeing7xx, I applied a loooong time ago. I got a postcard that said something I've long ago forgotten. Back then you were busy hiring my green card FOs with no Capt time. Maybe they'll treat me well when I'm bounced to the rt seat.
SW hiring standards are not my business. Above my pay grade.
Good luck to us all. We're gonna need it.
Boeing7xx, I applied a loooong time ago. I got a postcard that said something I've long ago forgotten. Back then you were busy hiring my green card FOs with no Capt time. Maybe they'll treat me well when I'm bounced to the rt seat.
SW hiring standards are not my business. Above my pay grade.
Good luck to us all. We're gonna need it.
If CAPT time was a requirement than I would have been out of the running because all I had was single seat fighter time. Very deficient flight time quals, but somehow I slipped through.
The Oscar
08-31-2011, 01:59 PM
#96
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: DC9 CA
Posts: 99
Oscar, I don't have a clue why I didn't get the call. I just find it odd that people with only flight instructor and rt seat time in a turboprop were "worthy". It left a lot of people in the crew room scratching their heads.
All I'm saying is when comparing real world hiring quals, Airtran can stand against any airline.
All I'm saying is when comparing real world hiring quals, Airtran can stand against any airline.
08-31-2011, 02:26 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 531
CE,
Actually I don't think I included any threats in my post. The reality of what is being discussed on our Forum is that many who were willing to compromise are now becoming militant. It is just the reality of the situation, not a threat. I guess it all depends on which side you are on whether it is perceived as a threat.
The sense of entitlement cuts both ways my friend. All the benefits with no sacrifice. Count me (almost) out. If this is to be decided by an arbitrator then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, but I don't speak for all.
The Oscar
Actually I don't think I included any threats in my post. The reality of what is being discussed on our Forum is that many who were willing to compromise are now becoming militant. It is just the reality of the situation, not a threat. I guess it all depends on which side you are on whether it is perceived as a threat.
The sense of entitlement cuts both ways my friend. All the benefits with no sacrifice. Count me (almost) out. If this is to be decided by an arbitrator then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, but I don't speak for all.
The Oscar
I am an outside observer, so no dog in the fight. But my observation for what it is worth, is that no reasonable person would expect the SWA pay raise without some compromise, I.E. some seniority give and take, but what was proposed (essentially a staple) was simply asking way too much. I just don't understand why SWA didn't come up with a more moderate proposal with regard to seniority that would have passed the vote and made for a smooth SLI. Most likely the arbitrator will use a Relative Ratio judging from all the recent arbitrated SLI awards, couldn't this have been avoided with a more reasonable offer by SWA with regard to Seniority, maybe a 5-10% loss of seniority for AirTran guys to make up for the younger age group, as opposed to the tremendous loss in seniority that was proposed?? Regardless good luck to all.
08-31-2011, 03:33 PM
#98
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: MD88 A
Posts: 51
[/B]
Interesting that you should use that last statement in this discussion. I certainly would be willing to agree if it wasn't for the disparaging remarks about the alleged parentage of the SWA pilots by some. The rhetoric (from both sides) has been down right nasty. Including allegations that the SWAPA folks got the AT NC folks drunk and took advantage of them. Of course that is why they brought the AIP to the MEC.
So did the ALPA national president visit a meeting by the AT MEC recently?
The Oscar (conspiracy theorist)
Interesting that you should use that last statement in this discussion. I certainly would be willing to agree if it wasn't for the disparaging remarks about the alleged parentage of the SWA pilots by some. The rhetoric (from both sides) has been down right nasty. Including allegations that the SWAPA folks got the AT NC folks drunk and took advantage of them. Of course that is why they brought the AIP to the MEC.
So did the ALPA national president visit a meeting by the AT MEC recently?
The Oscar (conspiracy theorist)
Lee was probably at the MEC meeting to show support. The ATI pilots are being pelted with veiled threats from statements by both Gary and SWAPA pilots. The AirTran pilots must feel very vulnerable at this point with the comments that have been tossed at them in an attempt to have them abandon the process and Arbitration.
08-31-2011, 04:23 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
I agree the rhetoric should be calmed down and the process should be allowed to move forward. If SWAPA pilots are upset, they should direct their unhappiness towards Gary, he did the deal.
Lee was probably at the MEC meeting to show support. The ATI pilots are being pelted with veiled threats from statements by both Gary and SWAPA pilots. The AirTran pilots must feel very vulnerable at this point with the comments that have been tossed at them in an attempt to have them abandon the process and Arbitration.
Lee was probably at the MEC meeting to show support. The ATI pilots are being pelted with veiled threats from statements by both Gary and SWAPA pilots. The AirTran pilots must feel very vulnerable at this point with the comments that have been tossed at them in an attempt to have them abandon the process and Arbitration.
You do notice that the vote part was essential to the equation? A group that was willing to strike a little over a year ago now has many of those same things that they hoped for handed to them (an understatement). The years and negotiations that would have had to be endured by the AT pilot group to get what SWAPA pilots have worked for would have been no more. Yet NO compromise.
I have to mow the lawn
The Oscar
08-31-2011, 04:34 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I guess what many don't seem to understand is that the AIP was unacceptable to many SWA folks, but they were willing to try and shut it down with a vote. Others were willing to look at it and project where they would be in 10-15 years (maybe compromise) and vote on it. Still others would have voted yes on it because it didn't effect them one way or the other. Now we are all one. If we are committed to this deal because of the agreements that were made.......so be it. If other options are still open and available, well..........let the cards fall where they may.
You do notice that the vote part was essential to the equation? A group that was willing to strike a little over a year ago now has many of those same things that they hoped for handed to them (an understatement). The years and negotiations that would have had to be endured by the AT pilot group to get what SWAPA pilots have worked for would have been no more. Yet NO compromise.
I have to mow the lawn
The Oscar
You do notice that the vote part was essential to the equation? A group that was willing to strike a little over a year ago now has many of those same things that they hoped for handed to them (an understatement). The years and negotiations that would have had to be endured by the AT pilot group to get what SWAPA pilots have worked for would have been no more. Yet NO compromise.
I have to mow the lawn
The Oscar
Just a quick question:
If the Air Tran group were to keep their same benefits and pay for -- let's say three years -- BUT, also get straight relative seniority, (ie. their #1 pilot behind your #1 pilot, then ratioed all the way down) -- would that be something you would be ok with?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
