Airtran/Southwest AIP in a nutshell
08-31-2011 | 05:20 AM
#81
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
08-31-2011 | 05:29 AM
#82
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Maybe, maybe not. That is a horribly invalid argument against someone who has a contrary point of view to you.
For me, yes I did apply to Southwest along with a number of other carriers. I also told Southwest "Sorry, I cannot do that as I have accepted employment elsewhere."
For me, yes I did apply to Southwest along with a number of other carriers. I also told Southwest "Sorry, I cannot do that as I have accepted employment elsewhere."
+1. Got my 737 type in middle of '98 paid for by my company. Updated my SWA app. Spent the next 6 years playing golf with a bunch of them, making more than them, and listening to their culture.
'04 got the call from SWA asking if I was still interested in flying for them. Hadn't updated in 5+ years. Nope. Never looked back. Don't want any part of them, nor their culture. Red herring argument in an SLI debate.
08-31-2011 | 05:39 AM
#83
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: 737 ATL
I will tell you that you have unified the SWA pilot group by turning down the proposal. We were arguing and having heated discussions prior to your MEC vote. Now we are becoming more and more focused. Many are now open to ALL options available to our pilot group. That is sad because those options that they now want SWAPA and management to explore are unpleasant.
The Oscar (trollboy to some)
The Oscar (trollboy to some)
You guys need to learn how to approach this in a more business-like manner.
The sense of entitlement and aura of dominance has not worked very well so far.
SWAPA is now exploring unpleasant options? Really?
What a coincidence. The arbitrator might be forced to do the same thing.
08-31-2011 | 06:13 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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I will tell you that you have unified the SWA pilot group by turning down the proposal. We were arguing and having heated discussions prior to your MEC vote. Now we are becoming more and more focused. Many are now open to ALL options available to our pilot group. That is sad because those options that they now want SWAPA and management to explore are unpleasant. I too have begun to question whether this deal was really worth it.
Your pilot group already signed on and agreed to the options in the transition agreement. The SW pilots I have known have always been honorable people. I gather from your post you are saying that they are about to change that. It would be very sad if that were the case. I am going to hope your the minority and that most SW pilots will honor agreements they have made.
One other thing I think all SW pilots should keep in mind. When this goes before the arbitrator almost anything can be introduced. Even some of the posts on here might find their way into the record. Certainly any attempt to end run the transition agreement would be viewed in a negative light by the arbitrator. If SW is honest and above board they will do fine in the SLI arbitration. They have many compelling points to present. Fail to do that however and the arbitrator may decide to teach a ethics lesson.
Your pilot group already signed on and agreed to the options in the transition agreement. The SW pilots I have known have always been honorable people. I gather from your post you are saying that they are about to change that. It would be very sad if that were the case. I am going to hope your the minority and that most SW pilots will honor agreements they have made.
One other thing I think all SW pilots should keep in mind. When this goes before the arbitrator almost anything can be introduced. Even some of the posts on here might find their way into the record. Certainly any attempt to end run the transition agreement would be viewed in a negative light by the arbitrator. If SW is honest and above board they will do fine in the SLI arbitration. They have many compelling points to present. Fail to do that however and the arbitrator may decide to teach a ethics lesson.
08-31-2011 | 07:31 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: B737/Capt
Don't feel bad about getting cut off, they do it to everyone. I've had captains that have had to slam on the brakes, because Southwest planes had refused to accept being told to go 2nd.
As for culture, I had an interesting talk awhile back with a really senior SWA captain. Only talked to him for about 15 mins, but he seemed like a really good/intelligent guy. He said the culture has changed. The same can do, lets have a good time attitude has changed to one of entitlement and arrogance. He also talked about a lot of waste. Like having more CP/Asst. CPs than was necessary sitting around doing nothing, making mucho dinero.
Before some SW pilot jumps down my throat, no I never interviewed at SW and yes I wish I made what you make$$$
As for culture, I had an interesting talk awhile back with a really senior SWA captain. Only talked to him for about 15 mins, but he seemed like a really good/intelligent guy. He said the culture has changed. The same can do, lets have a good time attitude has changed to one of entitlement and arrogance. He also talked about a lot of waste. Like having more CP/Asst. CPs than was necessary sitting around doing nothing, making mucho dinero.
Before some SW pilot jumps down my throat, no I never interviewed at SW and yes I wish I made what you make$$$
The Oscar
08-31-2011 | 08:26 AM
#86
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From: MD88 A
08-31-2011 | 08:43 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: B737/Capt
I can honestly tell you that I have never cut someone off. I try to be courteous to everyone. Now if you are saying I have beaten someone to the hold short line then........ but never a cut off.
The Oscar
P. S. Let's not degrade this thread down to "taxi speed" arguments. SWA ops manual says no more than 30 kts on a straight taxiway (with safety emphasized).
The Oscar
P. S. Let's not degrade this thread down to "taxi speed" arguments. SWA ops manual says no more than 30 kts on a straight taxiway (with safety emphasized).
08-31-2011 | 09:06 AM
#88
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From: MD88 A
I can honestly tell you that I have never cut someone off. I try to be courteous to everyone. Now if you are saying I have beaten someone to the hold short line then........ but never a cut off.
The Oscar
P. S. Let's not degrade this thread down to "taxi speed" arguments. SWA ops manual says no more than 30 kts on a straight taxiway (with safety emphasized).
The Oscar
P. S. Let's not degrade this thread down to "taxi speed" arguments. SWA ops manual says no more than 30 kts on a straight taxiway (with safety emphasized).
Last edited by Tab Flyer; 08-31-2011 at 09:45 AM.
08-31-2011 | 10:45 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
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From: B737/Capt
"I will tell you that you have unified the SWA pilot group by turning down the proposal. We were arguing and having heated discussions prior to your MEC vote. Now we are becoming more and more focused. Many are now open to ALL options available to our pilot group. That is sad because those options that they now want SWAPA and management to explore are unpleasant. I too have begun to question whether this deal was really worth it. That Deere John letter is still swirling around in my mind."
Above is quoted:
What are the "unpleasant" options? We are on the street? So if I read correctly---the infraction is turning down the proposal. So the options are not---hey, maybe we both can figure this out. Hey, let's see what went wrong, etc. No---the penalty is immdediately "unpleasant options".
Above is quoted:
What are the "unpleasant" options? We are on the street? So if I read correctly---the infraction is turning down the proposal. So the options are not---hey, maybe we both can figure this out. Hey, let's see what went wrong, etc. No---the penalty is immdediately "unpleasant options".
javaguy,
As I have said before I still want this to go well for all of us. I frankly am sitting in the middle looking at the extreme element in both our camps and shaking my head. I am sure your MEC is exploring all options (pleasant or unpleasant) right now just as SWAPA is.
My conspiracy theory again is that ALPA national is driving a lot of this. If this doesn't go well then they can at least keep their dues from 1700 pilots coming in and stick it to SWAPA. None of this has anything to do with SWAPA telling ALPA no thanks after their dog and pony show a few years back. Talk about the arrogance. They couldn't believe SWA pilots didn't want to join their little club.
The Oscar
08-31-2011 | 10:52 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: B737/Capt
Why did you find it necessary to include threats in your post?
You guys need to learn how to approach this in a more business-like manner.
The sense of entitlement and aura of dominance has not worked very well so far.
SWAPA is now exploring unpleasant options? Really?
What a coincidence. The arbitrator might be forced to do the same thing.
You guys need to learn how to approach this in a more business-like manner.
The sense of entitlement and aura of dominance has not worked very well so far.
SWAPA is now exploring unpleasant options? Really?
What a coincidence. The arbitrator might be forced to do the same thing.
Actually I don't think I included any threats in my post. The reality of what is being discussed on our Forum is that many who were willing to compromise are now becoming militant. It is just the reality of the situation, not a threat. I guess it all depends on which side you are on whether it is perceived as a threat.
The sense of entitlement cuts both ways my friend. All the benefits with no sacrifice. Count me (almost) out. If this is to be decided by an arbitrator then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, but I don't speak for all.
The Oscar
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