Airtran/Southwest AIP in a nutshell
09-03-2011, 09:52 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by Columbia
what exactly did you "give up" again?
How about a fight all the way to the Supreme Court just to get in the air. Then to be constrained by a federal law brokered by our competitors to handcuff Love field.
Every other ALPA competitor doing everything in their power to put us out of business. We chose to work for substandard wages to improve the viability of our fledgling carrier. We brought our type ratings with us to the interview to keep company costs down.
The pilots flew less trips to keep our about to be furloughed brethren on the payroll.
We flew ancient technology aircraft well into the 21st century without griping about it so that we as a company could grow strong.
We flew and fly more block hours than our competitors. Both out of greed and survival mode. Doing more with less.
We have never had a company provided meal on any flight no matter how long the day was. Or a defined retirement plan.
All these things and more allowed us to prosper while valiant competitors fell by the wayside.
Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TI, etc. gone.
Other iterations came to finish us off.
United express, Ted, Delta express, Metrojet, Song, Continental Lite.
Where are they today? We stood together and remained profitable while competitors shed debt and jobs to the tune of billions.
Eventually our wages came to lead the industry. Not by design, but by other's give backs. Yet we remain profitable.
Like any family we have internal squabbles. But should an outsider poke their nose in our business we circle the wagons and unite.
Enter our doors with a sense of entitlement and you will be exiting those same doors rather quickly.
09-03-2011, 09:57 AM
#132
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
There isn't a single thing that any SWA pilot gave up to go to SWA than any other pilot gave up to go to any other airline. You're all just carbon based lifeform systems operators, just like all of us. Any thoughts beyond that is just hubris.
09-03-2011, 10:45 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by gipple
You must be ignorant to the history.
How about a fight all the way to the Supreme Court just to get in the air. Then to be constrained by a federal law brokered by our competitors to handcuff Love field.
Every other ALPA competitor doing everything in their power to put us out of business. We chose to work for substandard wages to improve the viability of our fledgling carrier. We brought our type ratings with us to the interview to keep company costs down.
The pilots flew less trips to keep our about to be furloughed brethren on the payroll.
We flew ancient technology aircraft well into the 21st century without griping about it so that we as a company could grow strong.
We flew and fly more block hours than our competitors. Both out of greed and survival mode. Doing more with less.
We have never had a company provided meal on any flight no matter how long the day was. Or a defined retirement plan.
All these things and more allowed us to prosper while valiant competitors fell by the wayside.
Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TI, etc. gone.
Other iterations came to finish us off.
United express, Ted, Delta express, Metrojet, Song, Continental Lite.
Where are they today? We stood together and remained profitable while competitors shed debt and jobs to the tune of billions.
Eventually our wages came to lead the industry. Not by design, but by other's give backs. Yet we remain profitable.
Like any family we have internal squabbles. But should an outsider poke their nose in our business we circle the wagons and unite.
Enter our doors with a sense of entitlement and you will be exiting those same doors rather quickly.
How about a fight all the way to the Supreme Court just to get in the air. Then to be constrained by a federal law brokered by our competitors to handcuff Love field.
Every other ALPA competitor doing everything in their power to put us out of business. We chose to work for substandard wages to improve the viability of our fledgling carrier. We brought our type ratings with us to the interview to keep company costs down.
The pilots flew less trips to keep our about to be furloughed brethren on the payroll.
We flew ancient technology aircraft well into the 21st century without griping about it so that we as a company could grow strong.
We flew and fly more block hours than our competitors. Both out of greed and survival mode. Doing more with less.
We have never had a company provided meal on any flight no matter how long the day was. Or a defined retirement plan.
All these things and more allowed us to prosper while valiant competitors fell by the wayside.
Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TI, etc. gone.
Other iterations came to finish us off.
United express, Ted, Delta express, Metrojet, Song, Continental Lite.
Where are they today? We stood together and remained profitable while competitors shed debt and jobs to the tune of billions.
Eventually our wages came to lead the industry. Not by design, but by other's give backs. Yet we remain profitable.
Like any family we have internal squabbles. But should an outsider poke their nose in our business we circle the wagons and unite.
Enter our doors with a sense of entitlement and you will be exiting those same doors rather quickly.
Great points, Gipple.
Except, when you make an argument, you should also consider if the other side cam make the same argument.
Are you saying that the AT pilots haven't sacrificed either? It's not like SWA purchased a company that was bankrupt because of excessive pay for their employees. Can't the AT pilots make the same points about sacrifice for the good of their company since they were also profitable and had money in the bank when SWA bought them?
So, for every airplane, gate, route, and piece of equipment, an Air Tran employee can say that it's there in part because of the same low pay and work rules you belittle them for having.
The street should run both ways.....
09-03-2011, 11:06 AM
#134
Not retiring avatar
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: 777 CAP
Posts: 768
"There isn't a single thing that any SWA pilot gave up to go to SWA than any other pilot gave up to go to any other airline. You're all just carbon based lifeform systems operators, just like all of us. Any thoughts beyond that is just hubris"
+1
Pride cometh before the...
+1
Pride cometh before the...
09-03-2011, 11:34 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
Call me crazy but SWA pilots talking about a "sense of entitlement" is the definition of hypocrisy. Wasn't it your "entitlement" that got the FAA to look the other way during mx inspections, the DOJ to give you hard earned DAL,CAL,UAL and USA slots and now AT's route authorities and airplanes? You want to talk about entitlement??????
I do believe that the slots had to be bought, just like everyone else's.
09-03-2011, 11:42 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by gipple
Nice cheap shot
I do believe that the slots had to be bought, just like everyone else's.
I do believe that the slots had to be bought, just like everyone else's.
PS. Those LCC's weren't JB, Spirit or Westjet.
09-03-2011, 03:08 PM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
I'd say the cockpit atmosphere will be poisoned for decades. I'm not sure I'd put my family on a SWA jet again given that consideration. I wonder how the travelling public would react if they knew how much safety margin is given up by two pilots who can't work together well?
What am I thinking? All the travelling public cares about is cheap fares....
He gave up $8K to buy a type rating so he could "qualify" as a SWA interview candidate.
What am I thinking? All the travelling public cares about is cheap fares....
He gave up $8K to buy a type rating so he could "qualify" as a SWA interview candidate.
Bottom line is if it can't be discussed in the cockpit with maturity than it shouldn't be discussed. That is how professional pilots would deal with it.
The Oscar
09-03-2011, 03:09 PM
#138
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
Really? You don't watch the news then. DAL/USA had to GIVE UP slots in LGA. CAL/UAL had to give up slots in EWR. Who cried to the DOJ and the DOT? Those companies bought/developed/created infrastructure/maintained those routes only to HAVE to give them up to a so called LCC. Keep trying.
PS. Those LCC's weren't JB, Spirit or Westjet.
PS. Those LCC's weren't JB, Spirit or Westjet.
09-03-2011, 03:16 PM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by tsquare
And SWA is STILL crying about it.
Don't expect SWA to just bend over if there is the least chance that the DAL/USAIR deal smells of a conspiracy. There has to be a reason why it is so important to DAL/USAIR. Some might think it will "uncompetitive."The Oscar
09-03-2011, 04:05 PM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,636
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
Wow FF! So I guess it won't be any more unsafe than say the cockpits at UAL after their strike (still continuing) or CAL and atmosphere that has poisoned their cockpits for decades. My god man think of what will happen after those two companies finish their deal.
Bottom line is if it can't be discussed in the cockpit with maturity than it shouldn't be discussed. That is how professional pilots would deal with it.
The Oscar
Bottom line is if it can't be discussed in the cockpit with maturity than it shouldn't be discussed. That is how professional pilots would deal with it.
The Oscar
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