Airtran/Southwest AIP in a nutshell
08-29-2011, 11:35 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by 73sw
JohnDeere:
Its not that I don't give a crap, it is just the nature of the beast. This is a divorce in reverse. We try to extract the most possible out of each other but instead of seeing each other every other weekend when you pick up the kids we live with each other.
Had a guy on my jump 10 years after NWA/republic. I have a friend at red book and for an hour he told us how my friend screwed him. My friend was not in the union at all. Sorry if you thought this was going to be nice nice.
Its not that I don't give a crap, it is just the nature of the beast. This is a divorce in reverse. We try to extract the most possible out of each other but instead of seeing each other every other weekend when you pick up the kids we live with each other.
Had a guy on my jump 10 years after NWA/republic. I have a friend at red book and for an hour he told us how my friend screwed him. My friend was not in the union at all. Sorry if you thought this was going to be nice nice.
I bet if you guys had used a little of that when speaking of and dealing with AT pilots, you would have had a better chance of staying out of arbitration.
08-29-2011, 12:16 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,165
Originally Posted by JohnDeere
All the AT people (except MC) and all the ALPA support staff had left for home. The MC was more or less autonomous so they were on their own schedule.
No progress, no results.
The MC was packing up to leave when the SWAPA guys showed up with a six pack and said, in effect, let's talk.
So, now with no support network, 4 line pilots from AT agreed to sit down with the SWAPA MC for, I'm told, some VERY long days until an outline for the AIP was hammered out.
The AT reps (MEC) had little to no input since they weren't aware the talks were ongoing. The 7-1 vote could have been avoided, in my opinion, if the normal process had been followed.
The story is considerably longer but that is the readers digest version I was given by one of the Airtran MC delegates. And, yes, I fault our guys for not saying, "no, we'll be back next week."
That's how the AIP was derived. 4 guys acting on their own. All good people; I know them. But they were lured into the trap and fell for it.
The MC then told our MEC (all flying full schedules, mind you) that this was better than the deal Gary offered and probably wouldn't get any better. (Stockholm syndrome?) The team then returned to hammer out the complete language which, coincidentally, was well under way when our MC got back to Dallas (see twitter feeds for details.)
Now I don't blame your MC for anything they did. I blame our guys for staying without legal staff. They should have walked away and talked another day. But the result is the abortion of an AIP that has caused so much rancor.
Flame away. But at least talk to YOUR MC first.
No progress, no results.
The MC was packing up to leave when the SWAPA guys showed up with a six pack and said, in effect, let's talk.
So, now with no support network, 4 line pilots from AT agreed to sit down with the SWAPA MC for, I'm told, some VERY long days until an outline for the AIP was hammered out.
The AT reps (MEC) had little to no input since they weren't aware the talks were ongoing. The 7-1 vote could have been avoided, in my opinion, if the normal process had been followed.
The story is considerably longer but that is the readers digest version I was given by one of the Airtran MC delegates. And, yes, I fault our guys for not saying, "no, we'll be back next week."
That's how the AIP was derived. 4 guys acting on their own. All good people; I know them. But they were lured into the trap and fell for it.
The MC then told our MEC (all flying full schedules, mind you) that this was better than the deal Gary offered and probably wouldn't get any better. (Stockholm syndrome?) The team then returned to hammer out the complete language which, coincidentally, was well under way when our MC got back to Dallas (see twitter feeds for details.)
Now I don't blame your MC for anything they did. I blame our guys for staying without legal staff. They should have walked away and talked another day. But the result is the abortion of an AIP that has caused so much rancor.
Flame away. But at least talk to YOUR MC first.
1) Not a single one of the 4 MC members picked up a cell phone and let anyone in AAIALPA know that they were negotiating SL9?
2) No one at AAIALPA noticed that their 4 MC members were missing for a week?
3) AAI's MC went 'freeballing' without a support network?
You are portraying AAIALPA as incompetent and dysfunctional. Is this the story you're going to peddle as the excuse for SL9?
As an outside 'juror' (neither SWA nor AAI), I now vote to acquit Casey Anthony of murder and vote to convict AAIALPA of gross incompetence.
08-29-2011, 12:23 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Hoping for growth
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by JohnDeere
That's how the AIP was derived. 4 guys acting on their own. All good people; I know them. But they were lured into the trap and fell for it.
ALPA has a plan and they are following through on it. The vitriol directed at SWA pilots is not useful to anyone. We can fling rocks all day but it doesn't really matter. Our future rests in the hands of our negotiating committees, the arbitrator panel and most importantly SWA management.
Last edited by shredder; 08-29-2011 at 12:25 PM. Reason: -Andy posted while I was typing, kinda makes this post sound redundant...wasn't meant to be.
08-29-2011, 12:26 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by JohnDeere
All the AT people (except MC) and all the ALPA support staff had left for home. The MC was more or less autonomous so they were on their own schedule.
No progress, no results.
The MC was packing up to leave when the SWAPA guys showed up with a six pack and said, in effect, let's talk.
So, now with no support network, 4 line pilots from AT agreed to sit down with the SWAPA MC for, I'm told, some VERY long days until an outline for the AIP was hammered out.
The AT reps (MEC) had little to no input since they weren't aware the talks were ongoing. The 7-1 vote could have been avoided, in my opinion, if the normal process had been followed.
The story is considerably longer but that is the readers digest version I was given by one of the Airtran MC delegates. And, yes, I fault our guys for not saying, "no, we'll be back next week."
That's how the AIP was derived. 4 guys acting on their own. All good people; I know them. But they were lured into the trap and fell for it.
The MC then told our MEC (all flying full schedules, mind you) that this was better than the deal Gary offered and probably wouldn't get any better. (Stockholm syndrome?) The team then returned to hammer out the complete language which, coincidentally, was well under way when our MC got back to Dallas (see twitter feeds for details.)
Now I don't blame your MC for anything they did. I blame our guys for staying without legal staff. They should have walked away and talked another day. But the result is the abortion of an AIP that has caused so much rancor.
Flame away. But at least talk to YOUR MC first.
No progress, no results.
The MC was packing up to leave when the SWAPA guys showed up with a six pack and said, in effect, let's talk.
So, now with no support network, 4 line pilots from AT agreed to sit down with the SWAPA MC for, I'm told, some VERY long days until an outline for the AIP was hammered out.
The AT reps (MEC) had little to no input since they weren't aware the talks were ongoing. The 7-1 vote could have been avoided, in my opinion, if the normal process had been followed.
The story is considerably longer but that is the readers digest version I was given by one of the Airtran MC delegates. And, yes, I fault our guys for not saying, "no, we'll be back next week."
That's how the AIP was derived. 4 guys acting on their own. All good people; I know them. But they were lured into the trap and fell for it.
The MC then told our MEC (all flying full schedules, mind you) that this was better than the deal Gary offered and probably wouldn't get any better. (Stockholm syndrome?) The team then returned to hammer out the complete language which, coincidentally, was well under way when our MC got back to Dallas (see twitter feeds for details.)
Now I don't blame your MC for anything they did. I blame our guys for staying without legal staff. They should have walked away and talked another day. But the result is the abortion of an AIP that has caused so much rancor.
Flame away. But at least talk to YOUR MC first.
The first problem I have with this scenario is: This deal was put forth by SWA, not SWAPA.
The second problem I have is: You state negotiations went on for some very long days. ALL these days of negotiations were carried out while the MEC was completely in the dark about the process? What kind of an association would have on going negotiations of a deal of this magnitude without any support or counsel from lawyers, ALPA National OR the MEC.
The third problem I have is: You insinuate that SWAPA got your guys drunk to agree to this deal (when of course it was SWA's deal not SWAPA's). Did they continue to keep everyone all liquored up for the multiple days they were negotiating this deal with SWAPA, or was the liquor only used to dupe them into these stand alone negotiations on day one? If indeed the six pack ran out, why with the clear head of sobriety would they ever have agreed to this "abortion of an AIP" as you call it?
Last edited by shoelu; 08-29-2011 at 12:37 PM.
08-29-2011, 12:33 PM
#39
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: DC9 CA
Posts: 99
Andy, go do some more homework. SL9 is the SW agreement. As to who called whom, I wasn't invited so I wouldn't know. Seems you've got your own house to get in order.
--------------
ALPA has a plan? That's priceless.
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ALPA has a plan? That's priceless.
08-29-2011, 12:37 PM
#40
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: DC9 CA
Posts: 99
Shoe' you'll have to address those questions to your MC. I am just the reporter. Maybe you're drunk. I didn't insinuate anything. Read it again.
Last edited by JohnDeere; 08-29-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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