Yes - Delta is taking the 717s
07-20-2012, 04:57 AM
#111
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by tsquare
There were shenanigans going on over at PAA that resulted in pilots that hadn't stepped foot on a 727 in YEARS being "qualified" so that they could come over.
07-20-2012, 06:16 AM
#112
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
Okay, I will say it differently! The policy of ALPA in the past has been to support the integration of pilots (ALPA members) in the acquisition of assets. We have all heard that some DAL pilots wish to dump ALPA. Either the policies of the past that have benefited ALPA members or they haven't. To now dump ALPA for whatever reason and hang you fellow members out to dry is sleazy!
Just saying!
The Oscar
Just saying!
The Oscar
There is an integration process similar to A-M, with the goal of a fair and equitable list. We use it when there is a seniority integration. That has nothing to do with whether or not there is an integration.
Some pilots at DAL want an independent union, but it has nothing to do with AT pilots and even if it did, it wouldn't prevent an integration anymore than SWAPA could have.
07-20-2012, 06:40 AM
#113
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
You personally benefited from what happened to the Pan Am pilots but yet you wish to throw feces at myself and those here at SWA. Really?
The Oscar
The Oscar
Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines just announced they have a tentative agreement with Delta Airlines to sublease the B717 and transition them out of our fleet by the end of 2015. This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways. Side Letter 10 specifically addressed this possibility and it was discussed throughout the SLI & SL10 process. Management has made no secret the B717 does not meet the Company's long-term fleet plan and if the opportunity were presented, they would be retired from our fleet sooner, rather than later.
This is good news for our pilots for many reasons. First, management has stated there will be no jobs lost in this transition. The 717s will be transferred to Delta and our Classic fleet will be retired at a slower rate to account for the departing 717s. Add to that the availability of NG aircraft on the open market and our manning model will not be affected by this change.
Southwest's agreement with Delta will bring long overdue for many of our First Officers between now and December 2014 at the expense of Airtran captains. Movement on our seniority list is something we have all been waiting for and this will provide that movement.
The Company has repeatedly said the 717 is a "fine airplane" but doesn't really fit into our system or long-term fleet plans. We have a long history of profitability operating a single fleet type and this agreement allows SWA to continue to operate with that philosophy.
Finally, we believe this will aid the transition and place us in a better position to achieve the stated synergies that exist as a result of the AirTran acquisition. From the beginning, the Company has asserted this acquisition and subsequent integration would put Southwest Airlines in the strategic position to realize growth and increased profitability. SWAPA believes this is one of many initiatives that will help in that endeavor.
While we wait for the deal to become binding, I encourage everyone to stay engaged and if new information is presented, we will forward that along. Thank you for everything you do day-in and day-out.
Fly Safe,
END OF STATEMENT
07-20-2012, 07:24 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by 76drvr
????
There is an integration process similar to A-M, with the goal of a fair and equitable list. We use it when there is a seniority integration. That has nothing to do with whether or not there is an integration.
Some pilots at DAL want an independent union, but it has nothing to do with AT pilots and even if it did, it wouldn't prevent an integration anymore than SWAPA could have.
There is an integration process similar to A-M, with the goal of a fair and equitable list. We use it when there is a seniority integration. That has nothing to do with whether or not there is an integration.
Some pilots at DAL want an independent union, but it has nothing to do with AT pilots and even if it did, it wouldn't prevent an integration anymore than SWAPA could have.
07-20-2012, 08:04 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by newKnow
Actually, it seems to me that the fact that you are using a technicality (if there even is one) as reason to not include them (all of them) as part of the SWA family sends a signal to them that they really aren't and seemingly can't ever be part of the family at all..
The wholly owned subsidiary, AirTran, already has union representation - ALPA. SWAPA has absolutely no authority to change the collective bargaining agent of AirTran. Only AirTran has the authority to change their collective bargaining agent. If a representation change is in fact what is desired, I would fully support that change. I think all parties involved would be better served by a single collective bargaining agent.
07-20-2012, 08:10 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by 76drvr
Hre's some more current news from SWAPA's President. Looks like the exit of the 717 was understood by all parties during "negotiations" and that SWAPA pilots admit that they will now advance their careers "at the expense of Airtran captains."
Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines just announced they have a tentative agreement with Delta Airlines to sublease the B717 and transition them out of our fleet by the end of 2015. This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways. Side Letter 10 specifically addressed this possibility and it was discussed throughout the SLI & SL10 process. Management has made no secret the B717 does not meet the Company's long-term fleet plan and if the opportunity were presented, they would be retired from our fleet sooner, rather than later.
This is good news for our pilots for many reasons. First, management has stated there will be no jobs lost in this transition. The 717s will be transferred to Delta and our Classic fleet will be retired at a slower rate to account for the departing 717s. Add to that the availability of NG aircraft on the open market and our manning model will not be affected by this change.
Southwest's agreement with Delta will bring long overdue for many of our First Officers between now and December 2014 at the expense of Airtran captains. Movement on our seniority list is something we have all been waiting for and this will provide that movement.
The Company has repeatedly said the 717 is a "fine airplane" but doesn't really fit into our system or long-term fleet plans. We have a long history of profitability operating a single fleet type and this agreement allows SWA to continue to operate with that philosophy.
Finally, we believe this will aid the transition and place us in a better position to achieve the stated synergies that exist as a result of the AirTran acquisition. From the beginning, the Company has asserted this acquisition and subsequent integration would put Southwest Airlines in the strategic position to realize growth and increased profitability. SWAPA believes this is one of many initiatives that will help in that endeavor.
While we wait for the deal to become binding, I encourage everyone to stay engaged and if new information is presented, we will forward that along. Thank you for everything you do day-in and day-out.
Fly Safe,
END OF STATEMENT
Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines just announced they have a tentative agreement with Delta Airlines to sublease the B717 and transition them out of our fleet by the end of 2015. This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways. Side Letter 10 specifically addressed this possibility and it was discussed throughout the SLI & SL10 process. Management has made no secret the B717 does not meet the Company's long-term fleet plan and if the opportunity were presented, they would be retired from our fleet sooner, rather than later.
This is good news for our pilots for many reasons. First, management has stated there will be no jobs lost in this transition. The 717s will be transferred to Delta and our Classic fleet will be retired at a slower rate to account for the departing 717s. Add to that the availability of NG aircraft on the open market and our manning model will not be affected by this change.
Southwest's agreement with Delta will bring long overdue for many of our First Officers between now and December 2014 at the expense of Airtran captains. Movement on our seniority list is something we have all been waiting for and this will provide that movement.
The Company has repeatedly said the 717 is a "fine airplane" but doesn't really fit into our system or long-term fleet plans. We have a long history of profitability operating a single fleet type and this agreement allows SWA to continue to operate with that philosophy.
Finally, we believe this will aid the transition and place us in a better position to achieve the stated synergies that exist as a result of the AirTran acquisition. From the beginning, the Company has asserted this acquisition and subsequent integration would put Southwest Airlines in the strategic position to realize growth and increased profitability. SWAPA believes this is one of many initiatives that will help in that endeavor.
While we wait for the deal to become binding, I encourage everyone to stay engaged and if new information is presented, we will forward that along. Thank you for everything you do day-in and day-out.
Fly Safe,
END OF STATEMENT
07-20-2012, 08:32 AM
#117
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Originally Posted by 76drvr
Hre's some more current news from SWAPA's President. Looks like the exit of the 717 was understood by all parties during "negotiations" and that SWAPA pilots admit that they will now advance their careers "at the expense of Airtran captains."
Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines just announced they have a tentative agreement with Delta Airlines to sublease the B717 and transition them out of our fleet by the end of 2015. This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways. Side Letter 10 specifically addressed this possibility and it was discussed throughout the SLI & SL10 process. Management has made no secret the B717 does not meet the Company's long-term fleet plan and if the opportunity were presented, they would be retired from our fleet sooner, rather than later.
This is good news for our pilots for many reasons. First, management has stated there will be no jobs lost in this transition. The 717s will be transferred to Delta and our Classic fleet will be retired at a slower rate to account for the departing 717s. Add to that the availability of NG aircraft on the open market and our manning model will not be affected by this change.
Southwest's agreement with Delta will bring long overdue for many of our First Officers between now and December 2014 at the expense of Airtran captains. Movement on our seniority list is something we have all been waiting for and this will provide that movement.
The Company has repeatedly said the 717 is a "fine airplane" but doesn't really fit into our system or long-term fleet plans. We have a long history of profitability operating a single fleet type and this agreement allows SWA to continue to operate with that philosophy.
Finally, we believe this will aid the transition and place us in a better position to achieve the stated synergies that exist as a result of the AirTran acquisition. From the beginning, the Company has asserted this acquisition and subsequent integration would put Southwest Airlines in the strategic position to realize growth and increased profitability. SWAPA believes this is one of many initiatives that will help in that endeavor.
While we wait for the deal to become binding, I encourage everyone to stay engaged and if new information is presented, we will forward that along. Thank you for everything you do day-in and day-out.
Fly Safe,
END OF STATEMENT
Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines just announced they have a tentative agreement with Delta Airlines to sublease the B717 and transition them out of our fleet by the end of 2015. This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways. Side Letter 10 specifically addressed this possibility and it was discussed throughout the SLI & SL10 process. Management has made no secret the B717 does not meet the Company's long-term fleet plan and if the opportunity were presented, they would be retired from our fleet sooner, rather than later.
This is good news for our pilots for many reasons. First, management has stated there will be no jobs lost in this transition. The 717s will be transferred to Delta and our Classic fleet will be retired at a slower rate to account for the departing 717s. Add to that the availability of NG aircraft on the open market and our manning model will not be affected by this change.
Southwest's agreement with Delta will bring long overdue for many of our First Officers between now and December 2014 at the expense of Airtran captains. Movement on our seniority list is something we have all been waiting for and this will provide that movement.
The Company has repeatedly said the 717 is a "fine airplane" but doesn't really fit into our system or long-term fleet plans. We have a long history of profitability operating a single fleet type and this agreement allows SWA to continue to operate with that philosophy.
Finally, we believe this will aid the transition and place us in a better position to achieve the stated synergies that exist as a result of the AirTran acquisition. From the beginning, the Company has asserted this acquisition and subsequent integration would put Southwest Airlines in the strategic position to realize growth and increased profitability. SWAPA believes this is one of many initiatives that will help in that endeavor.
While we wait for the deal to become binding, I encourage everyone to stay engaged and if new information is presented, we will forward that along. Thank you for everything you do day-in and day-out.
Fly Safe,
END OF STATEMENT
07-20-2012, 08:38 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B-737 Right
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by shoelu
Wrong! This horse has already been beaten to death. THIS IS NOT THE ACTUAL TEXT OF THE LETTER.
I am past all that now. And I am disappointed that the discussion in this thread has gone back to the old "if you guys didn't like AIP 2, why did you vote for it" and "SWA FO's are upgrading at the expense of Airtran Captains" rhetoric after RP4242 so masterfully (in my view) took the conversation in the direction it needs to be taken ... that is, the SLI is over, it is what it is, and sniping back and forth can only serve as a distraction from the real issues that must be solved to keep OUR airline (Southwest Airlines) strong and competitive and moving in the direction of sustainable growth.
YMMV.
07-20-2012, 08:46 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by newKnow
Oscar,
Air Tran pilots are part of the Southwest pilot family now. They even voted for it by an overwhelming percentage, after SWA guys said they would be welcome with open arms. Now, it seems you want to send some of your new brothers and sisters to another family?
How can this be? Seriously, where is the luv?
After all that's been promised to those guys, and after the vast majority of them voted to in some way believe you, is this really what you mean?
It seems it doesn't take long for the stepchild to lose their shine.
(The ink isn't even dry on the seniority list yet.)
You are a good guy, don't let this stuff change who you are.
Air Tran pilots are part of the Southwest pilot family now. They even voted for it by an overwhelming percentage, after SWA guys said they would be welcome with open arms. Now, it seems you want to send some of your new brothers and sisters to another family?
How can this be? Seriously, where is the luv?
After all that's been promised to those guys, and after the vast majority of them voted to in some way believe you, is this really what you mean?
It seems it doesn't take long for the stepchild to lose their shine.
(The ink isn't even dry on the seniority list yet.)
You are a good guy, don't let this stuff change who you are.
The Oscar
07-20-2012, 08:51 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by Marvin
And it is unfortunate that the poster did not post the actual letter -- the only difference is the actual letter had no bold print, and in the actual letter the red bold print about "at the expense of Airtran Captains" was merely implied and understood and not actually stated. Actually, IMO it is unfortunate that it was posted again at all.
I am past all that now. And I am disappointed that the discussion in this thread has gone back to the old "if you guys didn't like AIP 2, why did you vote for it" and "SWA FO's are upgrading at the expense of Airtran Captains" rhetoric after RP4242 so masterfully (in my view) took the conversation in the direction it needs to be taken ... that is, the SLI is over, it is what it is, and sniping back and forth can only serve as a distraction from the real issues that must be solved to keep OUR airline (Southwest Airlines) strong and competitive and moving in the direction of sustainable growth.
YMMV.
I am past all that now. And I am disappointed that the discussion in this thread has gone back to the old "if you guys didn't like AIP 2, why did you vote for it" and "SWA FO's are upgrading at the expense of Airtran Captains" rhetoric after RP4242 so masterfully (in my view) took the conversation in the direction it needs to be taken ... that is, the SLI is over, it is what it is, and sniping back and forth can only serve as a distraction from the real issues that must be solved to keep OUR airline (Southwest Airlines) strong and competitive and moving in the direction of sustainable growth.
YMMV.
Well said Marvin.
. I will once again back off because those that I am jousting with may never be able to move forward and accept the SLI. I am not saying they should get over it because I understand what they believe they have lost. Oscar is bugging out.
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