Yes - Delta is taking the 717s
05-25-2012, 03:32 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL
For anyone hired in the last 5 years, it's a 20 year upgrade.
07-08-2012, 09:15 AM
#13
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Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 166
The 717 Captain seats were protected until 2015 and then would only have been filled by vacancies created by retirements--i.e. no bump and flush. If the 717's go to Delta as announced it will create about 300 more Captain upgrades since AT pilots can not bid for SWA left seats until 1 Jan 2015. When they can bid over it will be to fill positions opened up by retirements/growth--again no bump and flush.
07-08-2012, 08:14 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL
For anyone hired in the last 5 years, it's a 20 year upgrade.
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
Last edited by johnso29; 07-09-2012 at 10:46 AM.
07-08-2012, 10:35 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by Thunder1
I have to assume that your comment is implying that because SWA has a long upgrade time that a person is better off going to another airline where Captain upgrade can be attained sooner. I honestly don't get that mentality. Someone please explain it to me.
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
Last edited by johnso29; 07-09-2012 at 10:46 AM.
07-09-2012, 05:51 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 735
News & Events
Southwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and Boeing Capital Reach Agreement to Lease or Sublease Airtran Boeing 717 Fleet
Jul 9, 2012
DALLAS, July 9, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV) (the "Company") confirmed today that the Company, together with its subsidiary, AirTran Airways, Inc., has reached an agreement with Delta Air Lines, Inc., and Boeing Capital Corp., to lease or sublease all 88 of AirTran's Boeing 717 aircraft to Delta. The Company will transition approximately three 717 aircraft per month beginning August 2013.
"We are pleased to have reached an agreement to transition AirTran's 717 fleet to Delta," said Gary Kelly, Chairman of the Board, President, and Chief Executive Officer. "Replacing 717 flying with 737s is expected to significantly benefit our financial results once the transition is complete, and better supports our strategic and financial goals. Obviously, having an all-Boeing 737 fleet improves our scheduling and operating efficiency. This was the best opportunity, far and away, to sublease the Boeing 717 aircraft."
By reaching this agreement, the Company will avoid converting the AirTran 717 fleet into Southwest as part of the AirTran integration. The Company's aircraft rent expense associated with Boeing 717s will be eliminated as each aircraft is transitioned to Delta. The Company's total estimated AirTran acquisition and integration costs are expected to increase by approximately $50 million as a result of the aircraft transition costs assumed by the Company as part of this 717 agreement. The Company's annual pre-tax results are expected to benefit by approximately $200 million, after all Boeing 717s are transitioned to Delta and replaced with Boeing 737 flying. Accounting for this third quarter transaction will be discussed during the Company's second quarter financial results conference call.
Southwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and Boeing Capital Reach Agreement to Lease or Sublease Airtran Boeing 717 Fleet
Jul 9, 2012
DALLAS, July 9, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV) (the "Company") confirmed today that the Company, together with its subsidiary, AirTran Airways, Inc., has reached an agreement with Delta Air Lines, Inc., and Boeing Capital Corp., to lease or sublease all 88 of AirTran's Boeing 717 aircraft to Delta. The Company will transition approximately three 717 aircraft per month beginning August 2013.
"We are pleased to have reached an agreement to transition AirTran's 717 fleet to Delta," said Gary Kelly, Chairman of the Board, President, and Chief Executive Officer. "Replacing 717 flying with 737s is expected to significantly benefit our financial results once the transition is complete, and better supports our strategic and financial goals. Obviously, having an all-Boeing 737 fleet improves our scheduling and operating efficiency. This was the best opportunity, far and away, to sublease the Boeing 717 aircraft."
By reaching this agreement, the Company will avoid converting the AirTran 717 fleet into Southwest as part of the AirTran integration. The Company's aircraft rent expense associated with Boeing 717s will be eliminated as each aircraft is transitioned to Delta. The Company's total estimated AirTran acquisition and integration costs are expected to increase by approximately $50 million as a result of the aircraft transition costs assumed by the Company as part of this 717 agreement. The Company's annual pre-tax results are expected to benefit by approximately $200 million, after all Boeing 717s are transitioned to Delta and replaced with Boeing 737 flying. Accounting for this third quarter transaction will be discussed during the Company's second quarter financial results conference call.
07-09-2012, 06:30 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by Thunder1
I have to assume that your comment is implying that because SWA has a long upgrade time that a person is better off going to another airline where Captain upgrade can be attained sooner. I honestly don't get that mentality. Someone please explain it to me.
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
Are you saying a 5th yr SWA FO is making over 180K
Last edited by johnso29; 07-09-2012 at 10:47 AM.
07-09-2012, 06:47 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B-737 Right
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Thunder1
I have to assume that your comment is implying that because SWA has a long upgrade time that a person is better off going to another airline where Captain upgrade can be attained sooner. I honestly don't get that mentality. Someone please explain it to me.
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
As for me my priorities for an airline job are job stability, total pay, and work rules/flexibility. A 5th year FO at SWA can easily make as much as a United/Continental 737 Captain and a 10th year SWA F/O will earn what a Delta 737 Captain makes. I guess my point is that in my mind comparing upgrade times is a useless measurement. Instead, compare total pay expectations at the 5 yr, 10yr, 15 yr points when comparing airlines regardless of what seat you'll be in. As for me I'll take the 20 yr upgrade if I make the same or more money, have more time off and better job stability than going for the quickest Captain upgrade. Unless of course you're the type of guy that needs an ego boost by being "THE CAPTAIN".
Last edited by johnso29; 07-09-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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