Southwest hiring info
08-04-2015, 02:54 PM
#2021
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,445
Originally Posted by full of luv
What is the only lasting vestige of those bankruptcies? Oh yeah, the pilots no longer have any pensions. Thank you SWAPA.
Can you please share what you mean by that? Serious question, I am not baiting you, I just have no idea what swapa has to do with pensions getting destroyed by BK.
08-04-2015, 03:05 PM
#2022
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
Can you please share what you mean by that? Serious question, I am not baiting you, I just have no idea what swapa has to do with pensions getting destroyed by BK.
Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too... Those companies underfunded the 'A' funds, the PBGC took what was left and divvied it up depending upon how much time before retirement was left to recover . Has nothing to do with SWAPA.
08-04-2015, 04:25 PM
#2023
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
Can you please share what you mean by that? Serious question, I am not baiting you, I just have no idea what swapa has to do with pensions getting destroyed by BK.
There is no doubt that the "market" for airline labor was sans pension when the airlines went into BK court.
Delta had a well funded A plan going into 2000's, infact they asked to put more money into the A fund, but the government said no, stock market is up and we want corporate taxes on your profits so pay up.
Once into BK court, labor had no choice but to capitulate to the "market", that meant no pensions, no retiree medical, but hey at least there was profit sharing....
SWAPA will see the same lesson going forward, ALG and Frontier will show mgmt there are plenty of people willing to work harder for less money and that will be the drag on SWAPA's next contract infinitum.
Thinking that SWA is exempt from competitors labor markets today is as foolish as the major airline pilots thinking they were exempt from the new normal that SWAPA had established in the 90's.
That's what I meant, and I'm not baiting either. SWA has run a tight ship with good mgmt for many years.
Wish us all success.
08-04-2015, 04:49 PM
#2024
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too... Those companies underfunded the 'A' funds, the PBGC took what was left and divvied it up depending upon how much time before retirement was left to recover . Has nothing to do with SWAPA.
PBGC pays out according to a govt edict on how much of a pension they will insure. If the future payouts exceed the funds turned over, then the govt will be on the hook. Under the PBGC rules the payouts are significantly lower than what the companies plans called for.
None of that had to do with SWAPA except that their contract and lack of retirement was going to be the new normal either by agreement or thru a BK court.
It's alright though, it is what it is at this point. My whole argument is that if y'all are telling potential new hires that, hey were different, we never furloughed, all I would say is that is what they said at Delta in 1990 as well.
Don't wish demise to any group, but at the end of the day, our labor is only as valuable as what it takes to get a new hire to join up.
If we cede our international operations to foreign carriers we will eventually all become regional pilots in the corporations eyes.
If you don't think that ALG, NK and Frontier are challenging SWA, wait until our government declares cabotage legal and see what that will do to the pilot labor market in the long term.
08-04-2015, 08:06 PM
#2027
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by full of luv
What is the only lasting vestige of those bankruptcies? Oh yeah, the pilots no longer have any pensions. Thank you SWAPA.
Honestly, all of this sounds like revisionist history. ALPA caved to the market due to their inadequacies and due to the bankruptcy courts, not because one LCC had lucrative 401k matching and profit sharing instead of a pension.
Better thank the regionals and the fractional outfits for their help while you're at it.
08-04-2015, 08:42 PM
#2028
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by shoelu
Fourteen years is an eternity in this industry and any or all of the big four could be in drastically different financial positions during that time frame. I don't mean to preach doom and gloom but the volatility of our chosen industry is well documented.
Originally Posted by full of luv
What I find interesting is that you don't consider SWA in that same group.
08-04-2015, 09:31 PM
#2030
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by Thunder1
Super EZ E,
You are SO spot on! However, you forgot to mention that Southwest is such a damaged carrier and that they want the new hires to feel LUVed that they are issuing a pink unicorn to every new hire pilot. In addition, every new hire gets an unlimited supply of rainbow colored skittles.
Now for the real scoop for those interested in working at Southwest....
1) Moderate hiring for the foreseeable future (300-500 per year probably)
2) Excellent work rules
3) Excellent scheduling flexibility
4) Great pay with the ability to augment when YOU want to
a) 4th year F/O this year and I'll do 210K total pay in 2015
6) Slower upgrades than Legacies -- assuming the Gulf carriers don't destroy the Legacies international operations.
7) Proven track record of profitability and no furloughs
8) 2+ years into contract negotiations -- company playing hardball; however, expecting a TA to vote on this fall. Don't think we'll hit a home run on this contract but I do think we'll see some decent gains; the devil in this contract will be Section 1 - Scope. We'll see.......
Bottom line: apply where you want to work. The only individuals with a real choice to make are those very few individuals that get hired by a Legacy AND Southwest at the same time.
P.S. -- I wish 7 year SWA F/Os were leaving for Legacies but it just isn't the case.
Suggest you go troll elsewhere Super.
You are SO spot on! However, you forgot to mention that Southwest is such a damaged carrier and that they want the new hires to feel LUVed that they are issuing a pink unicorn to every new hire pilot. In addition, every new hire gets an unlimited supply of rainbow colored skittles.
Now for the real scoop for those interested in working at Southwest....
1) Moderate hiring for the foreseeable future (300-500 per year probably)
2) Excellent work rules
3) Excellent scheduling flexibility
4) Great pay with the ability to augment when YOU want to
a) 4th year F/O this year and I'll do 210K total pay in 2015
6) Slower upgrades than Legacies -- assuming the Gulf carriers don't destroy the Legacies international operations.
7) Proven track record of profitability and no furloughs
8) 2+ years into contract negotiations -- company playing hardball; however, expecting a TA to vote on this fall. Don't think we'll hit a home run on this contract but I do think we'll see some decent gains; the devil in this contract will be Section 1 - Scope. We'll see.......
Bottom line: apply where you want to work. The only individuals with a real choice to make are those very few individuals that get hired by a Legacy AND Southwest at the same time.
P.S. -- I wish 7 year SWA F/Os were leaving for Legacies but it just isn't the case.
Suggest you go troll elsewhere Super.
SWA did furlough. SWAPA stopped it before it was enacted. An illegitimate victory that SWA trumpets to this day however.
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