SlipKid

Oh, how I wish I were wrong. You know MR is chomping at the bit to please Gary.......

There are a few BOD members that are resisting it, but they are in the minority, so, the whisper campaign about these "hard to get along with" reps has begun. SSDD

Not that they need to, but once the SWApA spin machine gets through with it, and it endorses it with the Club 19 recommendation to ratify, it'll pass. A couple of SWApA "gains" propaganda rags and it's a shoe in, like the vast majority of issues that have been placed in front of the group in the nearly 20 years I've been here.

I'd love for you to be right, but a few guys on PPRune etc. are not "overwhelming opposition". As long as SWApA keeps capitulating, the lemmings will follow them off the cliff. Heck, there was a guy in the lounge the other day telling a rapt audience just how great PBS could be.

Oh, and :The Smartest Man In The Room" is still trying to sell "good codeshare", and argue against raises on the SWApA forum. And more than a few folks agree with him.

I'm hoping that the AT folks, knowing intimately what it's like to work for hostile management, will shift the tide a bit.

Yup, for a few vocal "malcontents" on the forums. The rest of the group is oblivious. Most folks out on the line have no issues whatsoever with all the ridiculous and costly side letters we've signed DURING section 6.

TA1 (the one where "we got everything we wanted, and nothing we didn't" according to CK) was voted down by a very small margin (around 1% IIRC), and that took a massive, grass roots effort to even get that. The SWApA spin machine was running full bore on that one, and the failure of TA1 cost CK his corner office in the GO. Then we immediately caved and voted yes, overwhelmingly, on TA 2.

As for the Constitutional amendments.... I was actually PLEASED and quite surprised to see the pilot group not fall (several times) for that power grab. Maybe there's hope yet.

shoelu

All I can say is we are definitely flying with two different groups of people. I don't fly out of DAL, HOU or PHX and maybe the ultra senior faction is ready to cave so as not to rock the boat for their few remaining years, but the vast majority of folks I fly with are ready to draw a line in the sand. That being said I think you hit the nail on the head with the AT guys joining our group. There are a lot of pilots on our list that have never worked for an airline other than SWA and are still living under the impression that management is here to take care of us. I can only assume that the recent addition of 1700 pilots that have personally witnessed what the past and present group at headquarters is capable of will not be easily convinced to vote yes on anything. Our groups stance towards management has fundamentally changed and the yes man group has been fundamentally diluted.

MatthewAMEL

It'll be 'A'.

Don't forget, ALPA would also have to vote yes on any extension/modification to the 12/31/2015 date. It would never pass.

SlipKid

Even if GK offered you nothing and promised to extend your contract for another year? Wow, you guys are hard core!

SlipKid

I am not ultra senior, nor do I fly out of any of those bases. The FOs I fly with run the gamut from 11 year guys who've passed on upgrade for QOL to recent hires. There are certainly more ****ed off folks running around than ever before, but I still run into plenty of Kool Aid, even from folks that are junior and should know better from years f bearing the brunt of SWApA's capitulation and absolute disregard for the junior. Equally surprising are the number of more senior types that are showing signs of radicalism, which at SW, means that they might actually consider voting (most likely yes) on an issue.

In all seriousness, I hope, like the airline pilot "shortage" that's been just around the corner for the last 30 years, that this time will be different.

The current infighting at SWApA is not encouraging. SWApA leadership is weak and is in GKs pocket. There are a few pilot advocates on the board, but they are outnumbered and are already being painted as "difficult". GK and VDV know all this. Unless we get another Jon Weaks and a few like minded folks on the BOD, who aren't afraid to use the word no once in a while, we're in for groundhog day. JW was the most effective leader and pilot advocate we've had in the nearly 2 decades I've been here. After serving one term that yielded more gains for the pilot group than all the other administrations before or after (during my tenure, at least), combined, he was unceremoniously shown the door. According to Kool Aid logic, he was too "confrontational". Since, with one exception (SC, who phoned it in), we've had a series of presidents that truly represented the attitude of the rank and file, Kool Aid swilling SW pilot.



I sincerely hope it is changing. I'm just not seeing it, and our voting results speak for themselves.

REF 5

Interesting you would call management hostile. They would tell you that it was just a game of section 6 negotiations. I think you guys have a long way to go before the tipping point. By that time you will have a TA. I think the hard part is getting everybody on board. This time it's different. When your growing their are a lot of things that a pilot group is willing to overlook in a CBA. Poor QOL issues fix themselves because everybody is moving up. Now we have no growth. Make no bones about it, SWAPA will tell you whatever deal they strike with management it will "give the tools necessary to grow the airline". Senior CAPT/senior FO/junior CAPT/junior FO/ and Airtran pilots are going to want certain QOL issues addressed. When your a no growth company those QOL are more intense. Especially guys knowing they are going to be on reserve for years. You want a contract that will pass by 80%. But 50%+1 will do. That's what management is shooting for. The bottom 12% in each domicile(you guys have a lot)better have something in it for them. If you sacrifice them for a small raise they may revolt. Just my 2 cents.

You are actually bargaining in a position of strength IMO. They are making money and you are the highest paid 737 pilots. What they want and what they need are different. It's not like the airline's finances are shambles and SWAPA needs to pitch in. All wants and no needs.

One road that MVDV/GK and Babbitt may go down is mediation. Babbitt has been down this road before. It's just another day at the office. When you were the head of ALPA and the FAA you know the game very well and it's players. NMB is a friend to management. Always has and always will be. If they decide to file I think SWAPA will have a bigger problem. This is where unity is a must within the group.

Two biggest provisions that SWA wants is PBS and scope/code share. Those are BIG issues. If your asking for raises/B-fund/ and better reserve to keep up with your peers, then management will ask for those provisions that those peers already have. It's hard to make an argument(SWAPA) in front of a mediator that they want all of that and not willing to give on some scope/PBS. Since 99% of airlines have a more liberal scope and PBS it will be hard to get out of that. It's a two way street and a negotiation. I've seen this game before. It's exactly how CAL,UAL,NWA,Usair and many other's got it. Scope has been going on now for 20 years and it's something that will not go away. Hopefully by that time the membership will be strong and behind SWAPA 100%. Time will tell.

MaxPowers

Nice post . . . . So nice, in fact, that I didn't even mind the thread creep.

SlipKid

And yet, I didn't.......



Preaching to the choir man.

Except for the whole SWApA/Lemming thing, you're correct.

Unfortunately, none of this has EVER mattered to SWApA or the Lemmings. When we extended a concessionary contract, solely to preserve the stock options for the ND40, while every other group was making huge gains, we were "different", and the Lemmings bought it.



Yup, and that's where it fall apart. unity has never been SWApA's strong point.

All it will take for PBS/Codeshare to pass will be an offer to "improve" the discretionary flying part of the contract to benefit the 1%ers (the mega senior who benefit from POT, which is the only thing the Lemmings seem to care about), and the promise of "growth". A few will gripe, but in the end, our group will trip over themselves voting YES for it.

That said, I think PBS, and to a lesser extent, codeshare, are red herrings. They are trying to get us to expend negotiating capital on it, like last time. PBS will kill our legendary productivity, and GK knows it. They might want some "good" codeshare, which is likely the reason the "The Smartest Man In The Room" is talking it up recently.

4th Level

THIS ^^^

Just like last time and the time before that.

MatthewAMEL

It's officially 'A'.

New memo from Chuck McGill.